To ST, or not to ST is the question

[Plavan]

I have been racing my car for years now. I have always wanted to give my 911 the ST treatment because I just love the look, and would love to race with wider tires. I keep going back and forth about cutting the rear fenders off and replacing with $$$$ metal ST flares then finishing the whole car.
Pros-Why I would like to cut the flares-
1. My car is a full on race car, so it is pretty much already molested.
2. My car is due for a new paint job (same color)
3. I would keep the cut off flares in case I ever needed them (don't know why- just makes me feel better)
4. I have a 2.5L short stroke race motor(s) already.
5. My car as a ST clone ripping up the race tracks would be soooo cool.

Negs
1. Just cutting the cars fenders off
2. Price of the steel ST flares
3 Need new front fenders/bumper and probably have to remount center oil cooler (currently RS front bumper)
4. Buying new wider wheels

I need help deciding. I'm torn. Will you guys still talk with me if I cut the rear fenders off?

[Plavan]

Forgot pics:
From this-


To something like this- but in my current color-

[Bobboloo]

For me nothing beats the look of the narrow body. I prefer the look of your car over the car below it.

That said, however, I say go for it. It's a race car. You'll be doing it for the same reason the makers of the original ST's did. For the track. No other reason is needed.

[island911]

ditto

[boba]

First, Its a race car.

Next, Its a race car.

The only reason not to would be class rules,
or you like the narrow look better.

In the day race cars were modified as the rules changed, so it is even today. One of the winningest 911's in history started life as a '73 RSR and evolved to a Speed World Challange series winning 993.

Do Save the cut off flairs.

.......and have fun.

[TRE Cup]

Costs and personal preferences of the ST look aside , consider the rules of the clubs you race with

Would the bigger motor , rims/tires, big bodywork put you in competition with B P vintage class ? If so, you will need to be a really aggressive driver at tight tracks to keep competitive, and be a backmarker at the fast tracks like ... where you have been racing: Willow, Cal Speedway, Buttonwillow
Speaking from personal experience racing against the Vette's and Mustangs in BP , with modern big hp, its frustrating seeing all the hard work spent passing them in the tight stuff evaporate at the first straight. (I am talking fairly equal drivers- cruisers in HMSA don't count )

Mark Scott did some amazing lap times and race victories in a car that is as narrow as yours.

Ok- so that is the competitive argument against doing it (and we sell the flares, bumpers, etc that make the ST look! )

[Lukesportsman]

First, I like your car's appearance the way it is, but its a race car. Saying that, do the rules prevent you from running FG fenders? This would allow you to go back cheap. Or why not buy some SC fenders (obviously, wheel arches are wrong) and cut them up for the SC look? The SC fender question is a real question and not rhetorical since I don't know if the ST flares could be welded to an SC fender.

[euro911sc]

Whats the cost of the ST fenders? Is that more or less then just finding and old school body man to adjust your current fenders a little to fit larger rubber?

I'm curious as I have considered this treatment in my future stable of 911s

-Michael

[Matt Monson]

Something else to consider is how will the wider wheel effect your chassis dynamics? We recently had a customer go 20mm wider on his 944 turbo and suddenly the car didn't want to turn. He messed around with all manner of sway bar and damper settings to no avail. In the end it turned out that our LSD set at 50/80 was giving him too much lockup once he went to the wider rubber because he no longer had enough power to make the tires break loose as he entered the turn. The solution was to pull out the differential and switch it over to the 40/60 ramps and loosen the preload a bit.

Obviously, a 944 is a different beast than a 911, and if memory serves you run one of our TBD's in your car, so you are unlikely to have the same exact sort of problem. But the point of the example is that you'll likely need to re-sort your suspension and potentially other things to get the car where you want it. Also, the different size tire will make changes to your gearing as well as your rolling diameter changes. Changing one variable in that equation generally has a trickle down effect to other systems that you'll want to consider (and budget for) if you go with the flares and wider wheels.

I would suggest you talk to other racers in your region running the sort of set up you are considering and if possible take some hot laps in their car. Because this is a racecar, looks are secondary to how it drives. I love the ST look, but if it doesn't make the car faster, what's the point?

[spence88mph]

Slice that f#$ker up and don't die wondering! There's enough narrow 911s...

The ST look is my favorite, I'd love to build a rep.

[sfoster13]

Is it just me or is the ST clone the new RS clone? We're going to see more and more of these.

Keep it narrow.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Which platform will make you faster?

[Plavan]

Originally Posted by TRE Cup

Costs and personal preferences of the ST look aside , consider the rules of the clubs you race with

Would the bigger motor , rims/tires, big bodywork put you in competition with B P vintage class ? If so, you will need to be a really aggressive driver at tight tracks to keep competitive, and be a backmarker at the fast tracks like ... where you have been racing: Willow, Cal Speedway, Buttonwillow
Speaking from personal experience racing against the Vette's and Mustangs in BP , with modern big hp, its frustrating seeing all the hard work spent passing them in the tight stuff evaporate at the first straight. (I am talking fairly equal drivers- cruisers in HMSA don't count )

Mark Scott did some amazing lap times and race victories in a car that is as narrow as yours.

Ok- so that is the competitive argument against doing it (and we sell the flares, bumpers, etc that make the ST look! )

I hear ya Dave. Just last week I raced with VARA and they threw the Corvettes in with us. I had a great weekend (Buttonwillow) and finished 1st overall in 3 seperate races and left the Corvettes(BP cars) behind for my first "Hat trick". This was with the narrow bodied car, imagine a ST car with with wider rubber (and the time to set it up for the new configuration)

Great info for me to think about.