8x17's in front?

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 06:43 AM

Has anyone stuffed 8x17 rims in the front of their sc/964 fendered car? I need more rubber in the front of my track car (currently a 205/50 RA1 on a 7") and all the tire sizes recommend wider rims for 225 and 235 width.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

I have Jeff Alton Fuchs - 8x17 and I'm running 235/40/17's euro height - fenders rolled but they fit pretty good

911st · 10-07-2009, 07:44 AM

225/45/17 should work on your 7" rims. The SPEC911 guys run 225's on 16/7" rims all the time. The limit on the front is about 245 on 8" rims with the right offset.

No mater how much tire you put on the front, it can still push coming out of some corners.

Just a note, the GT3 runs 235 w 305's. Still 225/255 can be a nice set up but probably needs a stiffer rear than a more traditional 205/225 or 225/245 set up might. Thus, some of the old front to rear suspension combinations may need to be looked at. Also, many cars do not have enough front neg camber to get the front to work to its potential.

Good luck.

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 08:28 AM

I may just have to stick with the 205's. The 235 ra1 is an inch taller in diameter and recommends a 7.5 to 9" rim.

FWIW, I'm running -1.5 deg on the front, 23/31 torsions, and 31/27 sway bars. I may try swapping the sways front to rear (put 31 in the rear). Looking at more neg camber too.

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 08:33 AM

Not a very good shot, but this is how the front looks now.

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 08:35 AM

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 08:37 AM

Front is still probably a bit too high, this is at full acceleration.

Superman · 10-07-2009, 08:40 AM

Autocross guys like to use 8x16 Fuchs from a 951 (944 Turbo). They fit in the front and can accommodate a 225 tire nicely.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

You can use 8x17 ET25-31 on lowered cars, 225/45 =>245/40 tires. The bigger the tire the more additional work that needs to be done

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 08:57 AM

I haven't had much luck locating a pair of 993 8x17's either.....

911st · 10-07-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhelgesen

I may just have to stick with the 205's. The 235 ra1 is an inch taller in diameter and recommends a 7.5 to 9" rim.

FWIW, I'm running -1.5 deg on the front, 23/31 torsions, and 31/27 sway bars. I may try swapping the sways front to rear (put 31 in the rear). Looking at more neg camber too.

Great idea.

The Nitto's have 225's that fit a 7" rim.

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 09:29 AM

I thought about the Nitto's, aren't they supposed to be clones to the ra1's?

glewis80SC · glewis80SC's Garage

I run 8x17 with 225's on my 80SC, rolled the fenders and 1.5 camber. No rubbing issues, i use the Nittos and I love them.

175K911 · 10-07-2009, 09:41 AM

I run Alton Fuchs like Jeremy.
17x8 et30 with 235/40 Nitto NT01, with 14mm spacers to clear my brakes for an effective et16. Yes, they fit but I run -2.25 camber too

My backup set:
17x7.5 Cup 1 replicas, et23, runnning 225/45 R888. I can run a 7mm spacer and still not come close to the fender.

Before you go buying new wheels, pick up a set of Nitto NT01's tires and mount 225/40 front. You'll have no problem with fitment. And the Nitto is a far nicer tire than the R888, at least 1-1.5 seconds a lap at VIR.

don911 · don911's Garage

I have 8x17 fikses on the front. I'm running 235/40 Nitto NT01s.

jhelgesen · 10-07-2009, 11:22 AM

Okay, I'm sold, I can get a 225/45/17 in the Nitto, just have to figure out where to buy and have mounted...

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 175K911

I run Alton Fuchs like Jeremy.
17x8 et30 with 235/40 Nitto NT01, with 14mm spacers to clear my brakes for an effective et16. Yes, they fit but I run -2.25 camber too...

i find that very hard to accept.

8ET23.3 is bad enough to try to fit but to try it w/ the wheel over a quarter inch further out strains plausability, lots of camber helps but there has to be something else going on there.

175K911 · 10-07-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

i find that very hard to accept.

8ET23.3 is bad enough to try to fit but to try it w/ the wheel over a quarter inch further out strains plausability, lots of camber helps but there has to be something else going on there.

I agree it shouldn't, but it does work. When I ran my 951 16x8's with 225/50 RA1's it was a lot tighter. These actually have more clearance. But I'm running 235/40 front which is shorter than the typical sizes and I'm sure that contributes to the fitment. And with 23mm torsion bars and Bilsteins valved to my specs there isn't much movement up front.

My biggest concern with this setup is that I'm not at an ideal offset which must throw off the Ackerman. But when I got the wheels, and did the 996TT brakes at the same time, I needed more than the 7mm spacers I had in the garage. Next size up with H&R was the 14's. As I type this, they're at a machine shop being machined down to 10mm (still hubcentric) to get closer to the ideal 23mm offset.

Bill, I know it shouldn't work, but the first pic (entering the Keyhole at MidOhio) is with the wheel/tire/spacer combo, and the rear wheels are 17x9 but with Jeff's "B" center which has an extra 5mm of material left on the mating surface so those are now 17x9 et12 wheels back there.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 175K911

I agree it shouldn't, but it does work. When I ran my 951 16x8's with 225/50 RA1's it was a lot tighter. These actually have more clearance. But I'm running 235/40 front which is shorter than the typical sizes and I'm sure that contributes to the fitment. And with 23mm torsion bars and Bilsteins valved to my specs there isn't much movement up front.

My biggest concern with this setup is that I'm not at an ideal offset which must throw off the Ackerman. But when I got the wheels, and did the 996TT brakes at the same time, I needed more than the 7mm spacers I had in the garage. Next size up with H&R was the 14's. As I type this, they're at a machine shop being machined down to 10mm (still hubcentric) to get closer to the ideal 23mm offset.

Bill, I know it shouldn't work, but the first pic (entering the Keyhole at MidOhio) is with the wheel/tire/spacer combo, and the rear wheels are 17x9 but with Jeff's "B" center which has an extra 5mm of material left on the mating surface so those are now 17x9 et12 wheels back there.

You can't rgue w/ sucess but I know haoe hard it is to fit 8s w/ ET23.3 let alone less. I use 8 ET25 on mine and would be more comfortable w/ ET30.

what hubs are you using?

9 ET12 in back is a reasonable fit, I like a little more like ~ET15 just to allow a lower car.

Here are some nominal heights of tires used on 8" fronts, the shorter the better as far as ease of ffitment goes, i've used up to 235/45x17 on 8ET25 and had shaved the lips totally off a long time before that fitment
205/60x15 24.7
205/55x15 23.9
225/50x15 24.0
205/55x16 25.0
225/50x16 24.7
225/45x16 23.7
245/45x16 24.6
225/45x17 25.0
235/40x17 24.4
235/45x17 25.4
245/40x17 24.7

175K911 · 10-08-2009, 07:54 AM

Bill, totally agree. And like you, after 30 years of driving and tracking 911's it never ceases to amaze me what can be made to work. And what works on one 911 may not work on another.

In my case, these fronts fit better than the OE 951 16x8's with the 225/50 RA1's. Every tire has a different shoulder shape and profile and that plays into the equation. Example- lots of Audi folks who always ran RA1's at the track get rubbing with the same size R888 at the shoulder. And the Falken RT-615, popular with the autox crowd, is wider than most other tires of the same size.

But you do offer an interesting thought asking what front hubs I've got. I should do some measurements, but the conversion to 996TT brakes using Steve Timmins' hardware included his "custom" Porsche hubs. I'm sworn to secrecy but they aren't stock 84-89 Carrera hubs. They're factory off the shelf Porsche parts that he machines to get the stock 996TT rotor to porperly align with the caliper and still use the 911 offset wheels. Could be that the face of this hub is a few mm further inboard than the OE hub. Hmmmm, never even considered that.

My rears are stock hubs of course, but I needed just a couple mm of spacer to clear the caliper face. 5mm is the thinnest I could find, and Jeff Alton made them for me. I'd run 3mm if I could find one. I could run 9.5 in the rear but I really don't want to rearrange my oil lines until I do my 3.6 conversion. Again, camber (-3.25) plays a big part here too.

I suppose I should have added a caveat to my original post that my car is 99% track car, with maybe 500 miles a year on the street. So everything about the suspension, alignment etc are set for optimum track performance.