Opinions on 3.6 transplant into my 72

[Christien]

Talking to a friend over the weekend, he may be selling his 964 3.6L engine. Good price, but would have to pass a PPI before being removed from car. He bought the car for a ridiculous steal of a price, assuming a rebuild would be in the future, but is now looking at completely new engine.

Odometer is reading 115K km, but stopped working "2 weeks ago" according to the seller (a few months ago). Engine would come with all intake and exhaust.

From reading here, I'm assuming I'll need to add some kind of front oil cooler (would really rather not change the factory S front spoiler on my car - can I get away with a fender cooler?), and likely upgrade the brakes. Are brake upgrades a necessity, or just a recommendation?

My situation: my stock 2.4 is sitting on the garage floor awaiting a rebuild - tired and smoking. I've got a 67 2.0L engine with E upgrades in right now that I picked up on a sweetheart deal - the engine with 20-30K km on a rebuild and freshly rebuilt Weber carbs for $3K CDN + my Zenith carbs. The guy that sold it to me wants it back when I'm done with it for the full $3K, less the Webers (I get to keep them). So I'm not in a rush to make a move immediately, lots of time to consider it. The original plan was to rebuild and upgrade my 2.4 to get as much power as possible out of it (had many recommendations from 2.5 to 2.8, will definitely be getting new P&Cs plus whatever else is required), doing all the work (except machine work) myself over a couple winters. But a 3.6 transplant is definitely tempting.

Opinions?

[island911]

3.6 - That is a lot of motor for the amount of tire under a '72.

[Kevin Stewart]

I have a 3.6 trans plant it it idles runs and drives light years above the old 3.0. I am really glad i did it, some run a really good fender oil cooler some run both fenders some run the front.

I would be concerned about a 901 tranny. i have stock sc brakes and they work fine, i dont track the car. I dont believe big brakes are a have to have some do, heck remember the brakes they put on seventies vettes.

there are lots of parts you will need to convert it. Kevin

[Wilywilly]

I have a 67 911 Normale that Franz Blam is putting a modified 3.6 along with a 915 and some suspension upgrades. I bought a 3.6 83 SC for the donor, keeping the outside stock with narrow fenders and it will have 5 1/2 15 951 Aluminum Space Saver rims (10 1/2 pounds each) with 195/65/VR15 (Goodyear Eagle GT's). Most everyone I know think I'm nuts but those who know me well know know I'm nuts. It's what makes the world interesting to me.


The Silver One


The Wheels


Left Last week to Franz Blam Racing


Donor Car


The 3.6

[rebrewer]

If you go with the 3.6, I suggest that you upgrade the brakes. The factory pretty much followed that rule.

[Brando]

If you go with the 3.6... Upgrade the brakes, get some more rubber under those fenders and upgrade to a front oil cooler in the fender area. DO NOT go to carbs. DO look into chips and different exhaust. Preferably something not stock.

[Wilywilly]

My 3.6 is a Porsche Motor Sports Longblock Crate Engine that was sealed, wrapped and boxed and stored for several years. When it was taken out of the box the inside peered through a scope was coated with a green cosmoline indicating that it had never been run. It was fitted with PMO's and a Electomotive Crank Fired twin plug setup, has Bursch Headers and sport Muffler and a front fender mounted oil cooler. Has about a 1,000 miles on it. It will all go on the 67 along with the entire SC front suspension and brakes and the SC torsion bars and brakes (a Big Brake SWB Kit has been purchased). Franz is fabricating some rear torsion bar and front engine mount reinforcements and will seal the engine tin. I was thinking of doing the power brake booster too but that would require too much cutting in the front compartment and relocation of all the electrical fuse panels. Been driving the SC this past week and find it smooth, gobs of torque and blindingly fast when you punch it plus the sound is mesmerizing. Will probably add a strut bar, HD shocks and a rear sway bar. Going to keep all the SC instruments and have them done in green by N Hollywood. Rollbar, RS Carpet set, H4's fender mounted Talbots and Classic GT Seats - Montecarlo's will finish it. I figure the first or second week of December. Won't track it but it will be autocrossed and used on spirited drives.

[fastbacker]

A fender mounted oil cooler and fan will get it done for a street car if it's huge, using up all available space.

[wilke3169]

A buddy of mine has an '88 carrera with a 993 3.6 transplant. It had the fender mounted cooler with a fan. The car always ran hot. It spent most of the time on the third bar on the gage. This car was done by a professional race shop here in town.
They added a front cooler, leaving the Carrera cooler in place. The car now runs on the second bar at all times. This included last weekend on the track at Savannah. He does have upgraded brakes and shortened 3rd and 4th gears. Great car with tons of power.

[fastbacker]

A Carrera cooler won't get it done but a large aftermarket one in the same place with a fan will. The cooler itself will cost around $800. Then there's the fan and what not but it will all be cheaper than running two coolers.

[Buckterrier]

More cooling, larger axles. That's all I had to do for my transplant. I agree with Island about the tires though.
I never understood, (maybe I can be enlightened), why folks say to upgrade the brakes. The car from the factory, (my 84' Carrera anyway), could go 146mph and apparently stopped just fine. I doubt, even on a track, you will go 146mph. You'll just get to higher velocities faster

[Bill Verburg]

3.6 in an early chassis makes for a very satisfying car, I've had mine for ~15yrs and won't part w/it desite having other tasty choices
1) brake upgrade is needed only if the car is tracked
2) tires can be an issue, i'd want 7 & 8 wheels w/ 205/225 as a minimum, but soem people do like to be sideways a lot ore than others
3) susprension - again if you track spend some $ here too

the 2 biggest issues are
1) cooling - it's been my experience that a minimum of 2 factory style fender coolers or a single at least medium size valance mount cooler or a small valanve mount and a single factory fender mount will do for street use. Again if you track it you'll want much more cooling

2)exhaust-you can use headers or 993 stock but getting a quiet muffler isn't going to be easy. As long as you can live w/ a pretty raucus car no problemo

[Christien]

Thanks for all the input. Should've mentioned off the top:

-it will be tracked. I do 8-10 days a year.
-car already has SC flares (partial RS clone, no front flares or decals). I run 7s & 8s x15, 225 rears, 205 fronts.
-S options, incl. front calipers, so better than T stock brakes, but still may not be enough for the track.
-cooling will be the question. No disrespect to others' tastes, but I really dislike the RS front valence with the cooler. I love the S chin spoiler (which I have) and refuse to part with it. If it can't be done with fender mounted coolers, it won't be done. Outside temps here hit the high 80s regularly throughout the summer, but rarely if ever above 100, if that makes any difference.

[berettafan]

can you run something bigger than 225's with the SC flares?

i'd maybe see if you could borrow a set of something else just to see how the car handles with different staggered sizes before committing big bucks to a specific tire.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Christien

Thanks for all the input. Should've mentioned off the top:

-it will be tracked. I do 8-10 days a year.
-car already has SC flares (partial RS clone, no front flares or decals). I run 7s & 8s x15, 225 rears, 205 fronts.
-S options, incl. front calipers, so better than T stock brakes, but still may not be enough for the track.
-cooling will be the question. No disrespect to others' tastes, but I really dislike the RS front valence with the cooler. I love the S chin spoiler (which I have) and refuse to part with it. If it can't be done with fender mounted coolers, it won't be done. Outside temps here hit the high 80s regularly throughout the summer, but rarely if ever above 100, if that makes any difference.

twin coolers, one in each fender can work, but they have to breathe, clean air has to be be able to get to them and then from them. The battery boxes are not conducive to that. So you will need to move the battery to the trunk, then remove the 2 battery boxes then seal the sides & top of the coolers so that as much air as possible goes through the heat exchange portion. You will also want as efficient an exchange mechanisn as is possible in the alloted space. Talk to Chuck Moreland @ Elephnat to see what is available. A possiblle aid to air flow will be to run very large ducts from the chassis front through the trunk and out where the battery boxes were.

Additionally some have retro fitted an engine mount cooler, but this poses it's own set of issues.

[Christien]

Bill, if what you say is true, then I can see the project very quickly spiraling way out of budget.

I do have 1/2" spacers on the rear wheels, so I might be able to fit 10" wheels in there.

BTW, someone mentioned a 901 - 1972 was 1st year of the 915, which is what I have. It does have a lot in common with the late 901s, but definitely a 915. I just rebuilt it 2 years ago.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Christien

Bill, if what you say is true, then I can see the project very quickly spiraling way out of budget.

I do have 1/2" spacers on the rear wheels, so I might be able to fit 10" wheels in there.

BTW, someone mentioned a 901 - 1972 was 1st year of the 915, which is what I have. It does have a lot in common with the late 901s, but definitely a 915. I just rebuilt it 2 years ago.

These things do have a way of spiriling out of control.

Chances of fitting a 10 are poor, it is possible but you'll need to do a lot of preplaning. I got 9.5x17 w/ 275/40 to fit on mine w/ a lot of work and expense.

Think through what you want very carefully.

[htron435]

Or you could tastefully cut out the valence to allow air to get to the coolers as was done on my car. Two coolers - one on each side. Works great, and still retains a mostly stock look.

[Wilywilly]

Thats a nice look Jay, trying to envision it on a longhood.

Bill

[Canada Kev]

You potentially have two big holes on the valence below the head lights where the fogs are supposed to be.