90 C2 vs. C4 - is awd worth the trouble?

tadink · tadink's Garage

Howdy all -

looking to replace the 'tangerine dream' 67 911 with a newer ride - - and have found a couple of candidates - both 1990 - both in decent shape.

The question is - is the extra weight and hassle of the awd on the C4 worth the effort? The cost to repair is potentially higher, upkeep and maintenance higher, etc?

Is it all worth it to have awd - the pricing does not appear to command a premium for awd, is there a return on the investment? comments?

thanks in advance....

td

Gogar · 11-03-2009, 07:44 AM

The quick answer is NO, it's not worth the trouble, but there's some deals to be had out there and if you find a car you like and it happens to be a C4, ehhhh who knows!

88-diamondblue · 11-03-2009, 07:44 AM

No direct experience with C4 but the things I have seen is the c4 driveline is big, big dollars to repair. Many have removed the 4wd instead of repairing it. What ever you get do a PPI by a reputable Porsche mechanic as there are some items such as the cylinder leak issues, distributor belt replacement and dual mass flywheel that should have been taken care of long ago.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

JMO, NO!
964 AWD has several very expesive components that can and will eventually fail.

964 AWD is not easily removeable, for starters you need a new transmission.

993 up AWD is fairly easily removeable, they use a totally different system that can be disconnected from the trans then unbolted from the chassis requiring a few relatively inexpensive conversion pieces

speeder · speeder's Garage

First off, why a 1990? That was a transition year for 911s and they are not too desirable on the market in the best of times, much less now. I can only imagine how cheap they must be. I'll admit that I'm pretty biased against all of the 911 AWD variants, (excluding turbos), the first generation was the worst. They've refined it quite a bit but it still adds weight and slowness while subtracting fun unless you live somewhere in snowy mountains and drive it year-round. On dry pavement, they're a drag. (Pun intended).

I'd much rather have a nice 3.2 Carrera than any 964 and I'd rather have a 993 than either. The economy is in the toilet here in the Golden State, I would think that unsold Porsches are stacking up like cord wood in the Bay area. Keep looking is my advice...

HarryD · 11-03-2009, 08:42 AM

I think you need to think long and hard about the 1990 AWD (aka Sputnik) system.

While I have only second/third hand information, none of it is favorable.

nickd · 11-03-2009, 10:22 AM

Sounds like lots of 2nd/3rd hand knowledge...

How many posts do you see about 964 AWD problems on here or Rennlist? Not many at all. Talk to a high-volume independent mechanic and you'll get the same impression.

For street driving you're not going to tell a difference - unless conditions are bad, then a C4 really shines.

'89 was the transition year. Although '90 still had some no-cylinder gasket engines and bad flywheels. If those two issues are ok, then nothing to be concerned with over any other 964 model year.

The C4's are more sensitive to hydraulic fluid change intervals. Otherwise, you aren't likely to notice a maintenance difference.

There are some great examples going for under $20k right now.

911jettat · 10:28 AM

tadink,
I would take your question to the 964 board over at Rennlist. Rennlist.com

I love Pelican's 911 forum, amazing, amazing talent and reference for 911s pre '89, for the 964? Not so much. A search on RL will pull up lots of interesting information for you to decide what's best for you?

-Drive every 911 you can find, they all will feel different.
-These cars are getting old, buy on condition. Reading a buyers guide on ANY model year 911 will scare most sane people away. Carrera have their own issues, 993's have lots of internet issues too.

One last point, I have a couple friends with C4's, they drive differently that a C2, but it's a good different. Regarding awd troubles? None of them have ever experienced any awd problems yet? Should you be afraid, maybe but not at the level written about in this thread.

Just my opinion...

tadink · tadink's Garage

The car I was looking at has an unclean carfax, but "it was only a minor rear end parking lot incident and the owner was so cautious that he had the car towed into the dealer to make sure it was ok". Uh, right, but severe enough that it showed up on the carfax!! I think I'll pass....sweet looking car however.

Thanks all for the insightful comments - I'll keep looking around for the right car.

cheers

td

Pete000 · 11-03-2009, 04:16 PM

The C4 ..... Don't go there. IMHO

RSTarga · 11-03-2009, 04:16 PM

NO! 2wd is enough unless you live in minnesota

Derkbarrington · Derkbarrington's Garage

I have a 1990 C4 with well over 200,000 miles, the AWD system has always worked flawlessly. I doubt you will notice much difference between the C2 and C4 as a daily driver.

sc_rufctr · 11-03-2009, 06:20 PM

The tires have to be right for a C4 because of the 4wd system requirements...
(Fronts slightly smaller in diameter than rears)

Also they don't drive like a C2. Almost like a front wheel drive car.
That's not a bad thing but you should be aware before purchase.

I drove one for about 12 weeks while I was working in NSWs. (Australia)
That was over 10 years ago but I'll never forget how sure footed it felt in the Blue Mountains during a very cold winter.

Great car overall but what do you want from your 911?

nickd · 11-03-2009, 07:30 PM

Pete000, care to elaborate? Or is this more 2nd/3rd/etc hand rumor?

For tires, you just need to keep the fronts the same overall diameter as the rears. I can't imagine why anyone would use mismatched diameter tires.

You're only going to notice the C4 push near the limits of cornering adhesion. A C2 owner and I swapped ours back-to-back, both with the h&r + bilstein setup, both with stock wheels. The C2 throttle steers better and is closer to neutral at the limit. For street driving there really is very little difference.