RUST SPOTS ? - should I take her to the body shop now?

[guidob222]

Hi Friends! I have a 1982 Porsche 911 SC that is mainly a garage queen. This is our second car so if need be, I do drive it.

I've been watching a few very small spots on my car - rust is not clearly evident, however, looks like it might be developing into something - no larger than a pencil eraser. These are spots that I have been watching for 5 years since I first purchased the car....have not grown or developed into much more.

I washed her last weekend and noticed a couple new spots at the bottom of my door and around the weather strip of my driver's side door - again - VERY small - the size of a pencil eraser or smaller.

Is there something I can do to prevent these spots from turning into much more? Do I just continue to watch them? Is it time to take her to a body shop to get these spots taken care of? Can I just take care of these spots or do I need to have the entire car stripped of paint, take care of these spots/body work, and then a re-paint with new weather strip?

Thank you for your time - I can provide pictures if that would help. I do not know much about body work - but I do want to address these issues if they need to be taken care of now.

Thanks!

[Macroni]

Your car is not prone to rust. I would clean up the area of concern.

[guidob222]

Thanks for the quick reply. How would you recommend cleaning up these spots?

[sailchef]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Your car is not prone to rust.

Why would you say that? Because of the galvanizing? Rust can happen and once it gets started should be delt with like the cancer it is.

I waited to long and because of that I now have a much larger project in front of me.

Here are some pictures of my 1980 SC. I've owned it 7-8 years, and has always been kept in the garage. The garage floor is covered with a plastic tarp and the tarp is covered with carpet. I have driven in the rain maybe 6 times since i've owned it. I drive it quite a bit but only on nice days. It's not my daily transport.

This all started as small spots that I have been watching for the last 4-5 years.

The first photo is the inside wheel well D/S caused by dirt collecting between the bumper shock and the body. The battery tray is still pristine. It's like this on both the drivers side and the pass side.



The next photo is the rocker where it meets the door jamb. 6 years ago it was just a tiny bubble, barely noticable.




The next phot is the other side of the wheel well damage.



Our cars may be a little more protected than most because of the galvanizing but they are still fabricated fron 16-18 gauge steel.

Just my .02

I'll be documenting this repair on the forum as I get further along.

Didn't meen to hyjack the thread just wanted you to know that there are 100's of later model p-cars being lost to rust.

[ossiblue]

Post some pictures of the areas of concern, that will help.

I think sailchief's post is a good warning regarding rust in galvanized cars. To me, any bubble is a sign that corrective measures should be taken be it due to poor paint prep (has your car been repainted?) or the start of rust. The two locations you mention are notorious for rust and I would suggest a closes follow up. Rust bubbles on the surface are often the final stages of destruction and the slowest to change as the deterioration is on the back side. The fact that new bubbles have appeared is, IMO, not a sign to be ignored.

A good paint/body shop should be able to determine if the bubbles are from rust and also affect a repair without repainting the entire car.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Sand or strip the areas of concern down to bare metal and see what you REALLY have. That will determine the extent of repair required.

Rust - even a little - can not be left unchecked or ignored. This needs to be dealt with.

A little "BTDT" here, if you take it to a body shop as-is, they'll gladly quote you a reasonable-sounding offer based on what can be seen. Don't be surprised when they call you back in a few days needing to "revise" the estimate to 4-5X the original quote because of what they find once they start grinding and the true extent is revealed. I recommend doing that part yourself, seeing what you have and THEN either fixing it or taking it for quotes (since they'll be much more accurate).

Another "BTDT" piece of advice is to check EVERYTHING now. Go over the entire car, top-to-bottom. Take an entire day and look in every single little crevasse, along all the seams, panel joints, etc. Document EVERYTHING that looks like rust in a notebook and with a camera if possible. If you have it in one place, I guarantee you have it in a few more places you can't see or don't often look at.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Another thing you can do--as I'm about to on one rocker panel of my '83 SC--is take a hole saw, make a small hole where the rust is, and look inside with a flashlight and mirror or even a borescope. If the damage inside is minor, I'll just take some Eastwood undercoater and spray it in, then weld the hole closed. If not...I hate to think what I might find.

[guidob222]

Thanks for everyone's responses! I am planning on taking my car to a body shop to have it looked at. Does anyone have any PORSCHE BODY SHOP recommendations in the Cincinnati area? Thanks!

[burgermeister]

One fairly nondestructive test is to poke a scratch awl into a rust bubble. If it goes through, there is surely extensive damage behind. If it doesn't, maybe it's just a stone chip left unattended for too long.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I have little doubt that the rust goes through, what I'm more concerned with is what's going on _inside_ the rocker compartment, or whatever you call it--under the sill, inboard of the rocker panel. The exterior rocker panel can be fixed relatively easily, the internals are a far bigger job.

[guidob222]

Thanks for everyone's responses! I took my 911 to a body shop and the owner did not want to just fix the minor spots - he said it wouldn't look good. He said if he too each panel off/door off to repair, sand and repaint it would cost in upwards of $500 per panel. I told him I was not trying to achieve a concourse looking car - just wanted to take care of the cancer.

He did quote me the following - does this sound like it is worth it?

Remove/Re-install Bumper for below 1.2 hours labor @ $48/HR
Replace Front Bumper Smile $224.37 Parts / 0.5 hours labor @ $48/HR
Replace Front Bumper Cushion Center $173.26 Parts / 0.3 hours labor @ $48/HR

Remove/Re-install windshield to replace seal - sublet @ $210.00
Replace Channel (seal) $115.74

Put car on lift to check under carriage for rust 1.0 hours labor @ $48/hr

Total was around $900.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this sound worth it?

My bumper smile does have some bubbles in the rubber (rust on the metal piece below it) - needs replaced. I do think my windshield seal is bad.

I really want someone to take care of the small rust spots - I really don't care if they don't look perfect - my car isn't perfect...I drive it. I am going to keep looking for another body shop to fix the spots.

Am I crazy for wanting to take care of these spots? Does the $900 sound worth it for the minor work mentioned above?

Thanks guys! Have a great day!

[GothingNC]

Why don't you try to remove the parts yourself, save quite a bit on labor costs.

Also factor in the cost of a new windshield if the original one is old, might crack.

[KNS]

I would seek out another shop. You should be able to find a guy to work with you and fix what you are concerned with. Whomever you chose may find more rust upon closer inspection - get that fixed too. The smile has a metal strip that rusts on the inside, just replace the whole smile, they're not that expensive. The bumpers are aluminum.

I just had a few small rust spots repaired on my door sills underneath the rubber strip (check under there!). Like you, I had been watching them for the last few years and finally got them repaired. They did get a little worse over time and I wish I had fixed tham sooner. I'm in Arizona, nowhere are you imune to rust.

[guidob222]

Thanks for everyone's reply - I am going to keep looking for a body shop to address the very small rust spots I have. I tried to take some pictures, however, the spots are so small, I cannot get any good pics....plus I've been dabbing them with paint for seven years now so they just look like paint dabs.

[guidob222]

Hi Friends - I finally received a full quote for the body work I want done on my 911 SC. Can you please review and advise if this sounds like it is fair for the work I want/need done? Thanks so much for your time!

Basically this is to repair about 5 rust spots (small), replace all window, front/rear windshield seals, weather stripping, sunroof seals, bumper smile and center bumper piece. Total is $3,532.26.

Detailed quote is attached as images.

Please let me know your thoughts.

I am trying to correct the rust I have now and avoid any further rust - & ensure my car has new rubber seals all around to keep it dry.

[KNS]

That's a big bill for all that work. You're mostly paying to have all that rubber and weather stripping removed and replaced - does it need it (if you drive in a lot of rain, okay)? Speaking for myself, I wouldn't get all that rubber replaced unless I was having the whole car repainted. Why are you having the headliner replaced, is it unsightly? That's a lot of labor just by itself. All the glass comes out to do the headliner, along with some extra seals and window rubber, all you're missing is the paint for a complete re-spray.

I've had rust spots fixed on two different occasions, both a little larger and more obvious than yours. Each time was around $300 bucks for a couple of small spots.

Get some more estimates, good luck!

[guidob222]

Kurt - thank you so much for taking the time to review my estimate. My 911 SC is actually my second car - if need be, it will be driven in bad weather...I have all season tires on it now - rated for snow. I drive it - actually here lately drive it much more just to enjoy it...take on road trips...where I do encounter rain. I am getting some water in the car around the lower right side of the front windshield and lower left rear of the back windshield. The two spots of rust that have recently developed are on the bottom of the driver's side car door window seal and the other is around the edge of the passenger side quarter panel glass seal. The headliner is not in too bad of shape - I just figured I'd replace it now since all of the glass would be out. My main objective is to ensure all of the window seals and weather stripping are intact so I can feel confident the car is dry if driven in rain, etc. I just want to make sure the car is dry and correct the small rust spots I have now. I thought about the re-spray, however, my paint actually is in great shape except for one spot of oxidation on the passenger side rear quarter panel (small) which is barely noticeable. I do not show my car - so I am not really interested in a re-spray at this time. I love my car to drive it - not have a pristine show piece. If I change my mind 5 years down the road, can I re-use all of this rubber or do you have to replace all off this again if/when you respray? Should all of these seals I want to replace only be done when you are thinking of a re-spray or full body restoration? Is this job I've got quoted overkill? Thanks again for your time - I really appreciate your input. This is a TON of money for me, however, I don't want to neglect my 911 SC. Take care, Shawn

[pozee]

Shawn - If that is a ton of money for you at this time, hold off!

I am pretty sure that the shop is going to find more rust. You will be spending more money than what is on that estimate.

You need more advise from someone who can physically look at your car and has done 911 paint and bodywork.

[sailchef]

Guidob222,

Do you have any experience doing this type of work yourself? The spots you have photographed seem like they could be adressed one at a time if you have the space to do the work. The water leaking from the windsheild and the rear glass are going to be the most critical to repair. All of this can be done by yourself if you have the time and patience.

The spots pictured are so small that you wouldn't be painting large areas and could feather it in, its a dark color as well. A little more buffing and waxing and you could make the new spots blend pretty good. It won't be perfect, you said you weren't looking for concourse paint.

Replacing rubber seals is not that difficult. You do them one at a time and learn to refine your technique as you go along.

I've always taken the saved "LABOR COST" cash and bought the tools needed to do the job.

In the end its a lot of satisfaction, and, you get to stand back and tell your freinds, " I do my own work on MY porsche". It's really gratifying.

Looking to the members of this board for advice I'll bet you can pull it off.

Just my $.02

[KNS]

I agree with sailchef, just fix the small spots you have, replace the front and rear window rubber (even if you hired that out it wouldn't that much), the smile (easy project) and continue driving it. I think that estimate is overkill.

As mentioned be prepared for more spots to be found, the bottom of the windshield A posts (the bottom corners) is a common spot. Grab the bottom lip of the rubber seal with your fingers, peel up and peak underneath for rust.