Real Fuchs vs. Replicas

[75-911S]

Is there an easy way to tell a real Fuchs wheel from one of the replicas?

Jack

[twistoffat]

This is worth a read


Fuchs means fox in German. There is a little caricature of a fox's head stamped on the backs of all early Fuchs. Some earlies have it on the hub. But, most are adjacent to the "901..." part number. The fox heads on the hub are much larger than the ones appearing next to the "901..." number.

There is also a date stamp on the back of the hub. It will have the month and year. For example: "1 67" - January 1967. There are also other various esoteric forging numbers, letters, characters, etc. that the manufacturer used. These differ widely even among same size & date wheels.

Many early 4.5's have no "part" numbers stamped on them. These "part numbers" were originally forging numbers used by the Fuch company and not "part" numbers. (Otto Fuchs Metallwerke, commonly referred to as "Fuchs," is the company that made the wheels for Porsche; there are many, many other kinds of "Fuch" wheels - you just wouldn't ever recognize them...) The forging numbers were commonly ground off after forging. Later, these forging numbers became part numbers...

It gets a little more confusing... Some early 6's have the .04 number - again, the numbers were used for forging purposes and i'm sure are right for however they kept track of them, or maybe a few workers were just lazy in changing the serial numbers... Again, they couldn't have been that important if they ground most of them off! I even have a set of 6's with "901...00" part numbers! Also, Fuchs first appeared in late '66. There were 5.5's, 6's, and 7R's in '66! There had to be. All Porsche's racers were using these cutting-edge wheels. Different wheels for different applications...

7.0's had a rubber stamp part number - the metal stamp was almost always (basically read "always") ground off. Also, the metal stamp would not be .05, it would be whatever number was being used to make the 6's at the time, since they used the same forging piece for the petals or spokes. However, the sides and backs are unique and very recognizeable to the R wheels. Thus, custom-made R wheels are easily identifiable. Some 6.0's even end with .00 (very early). {I have (4) of these wheels.} It's possible to have R's with .00 forging numbers too. 6.0 Fuchs made for the 911R race cars had a .03 ending part number. Now, those are some extremely rare wheels: {24 cars (4 prototypes and 20 production cars) x 2 wheels(fronts) = 46 + 23 spares = 59 total !!! Ever!!!}

Incidentally, in "901...04" the "0" refers to the center cap style (3-prong). The "4" eventually, referred to the wheel size... Is there an "901...02" ? Could be. Maybe a .02 modification was done and Porsche said, "Uh-uh. That doesn't work," and trashed the whole .02 series. There are other gaps in Porsche part number series and oftentimes this is the case...

There are no fake 4.5's - yet. Also, they would be easy to identify because of their weight and especially all the little details that would surely be lost in the casting process. All original Fuch alloys were forged wheels. This process is very expensive, but extremely effective in producing a strong wheel. The back of 4.5's are also unique...yet similar to R's.

In the May 2000 issue of Excellence on p.108 Jerry Sloniger states, "If we give the standard wheel a cost baseline of 1.0, Fuchs estimates that the hollow-spoke aluminum wheel has an index figure of 13.0, a mag wheel 16.0." That means quality wheels are 13 to 16 times as expensive to produce! As you know, most automakers will dive head first at the opportunity to cut costs and put out junk instead of quality - (my opinion.)

Fuchs' contract gave all the tooling to Porsche. Sadly, Porsche no longer has the tooling for the early 15" Fuchs. They still have the tooling for the 16" and did a run of 500 wheels some years ago.

[cfries]

Great read. One question, I always hear about the real Fuchs having a "heart" next to the part number. I am guessing its actually the FOX's head you mentioned.

[twistoffat]

That would be correct. The heart is a foxes head

[HarryD]

Look for stampings/casting on the back that look something like this:

From a pair of 16x7 Fuchs:



From a a pair of 15x7 Fuchs:


From a 15x6 Fuchs:

[75-911S]

Thanks for the great information. Now I know I have a set of replicas.

Jack

[Jim Egan]

I have a set of 4.5x15 "Fuchs" wheels that I bought used in 1985 to put on my 1966 911. I've been trying to determine if they are "originals". I've read the above and there seems to be some doubt about the markings on the really early wheels; I've just cleaned my wheels up and they show the following markings, all the markings are in the indent nearest the wheel opening: three of the wheels have "770" stamped in the indent and one has "670", two have the letter "F" stamped in an adjacent indent, one has the numeral "0" at that location, three have the number "41" stamped in a recessed "oval". All stampings appear to be from the same "script". Any ideas on what this means in determining originality?

[darrin]

Originally Posted by cfries

Great read. One question, I always hear about the real Fuchs having a "heart" next to the part number. I am guessing its actually the FOX's head you mentioned.

Just to confuse things a bit, on some earlier fuchs (including the 7R) the cutout adjacent to the valve stem and closest to the rim has a small protuberance that makes it heart shaped. These are referred to as fuchs with hearts -- see, e.g. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads16/Fuchs+7R+15x7+w+Heart+02a1266007294.jpg

[manbridge 74]

Quick eyes will note that almost all replicas have the petals ending in a sharp point versus a more rounded end.

[TheSt|G]

While we are on the topic, I have no idea why people are charging the same or more for 16x8s than the cost new from Porsche right now. It's absurd, especially when you factor in the risk of wear/damage/stress/every idiot's chroming and polish job.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Jim Egan

I have a set of 4.5x15 "Fuchs" wheels that I bought used in 1985 to put on my 1966 911. I've been trying to determine if they are "originals". I've read the above and there seems to be some doubt about the markings on the really early wheels; I've just cleaned my wheels up and they show the following markings, all the markings are in the indent nearest the wheel opening: three of the wheels have "770" stamped in the indent and one has "670", two have the letter "F" stamped in an adjacent indent, one has the numeral "0" at that location, three have the number "41" stamped in a recessed "oval". All stampings appear to be from the same "script". Any ideas on what this means in determining originality?

You need to post a picture of the stampings. It would be immensely helpful.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Quick eyes will note that almost all replicas have the petals ending in a sharp point versus a more rounded end.

Euromeisters don't. But you can ID these by the machine marks on the rim and the thicker material of the centers.

[manbridge 74]

Euromeisters are fatties!

Bet they are almost twice as heavy as Fuchs.

[Jim Egan]

Thanks to all for looking at my post on my "early" Fuchs wheels. I have taken pictures of the stampings on my wheels and a couple of shots of the wheel for a general idea of what they look like. I'm not real "techy" so I hope I can get the photos on here.

[zedsn]

Sorry to stray off topic but my 17" x7 and 9 euromeister wheels are not heavy at all.

[manbridge 74]

Hmm, we have a car at work that I'll have to look at again. Possibly there are fake Euromeisters too.

Wheels just above are real.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by zedsn

Sorry to stray off topic but my 17" x7 and 9 euromeister wheels are not heavy at all.

I agree. Slightly heavier than original Fuchs, but no where near twice the weight others suggested.

[Zestys1]

Have a set they are lighter then fuchs

[Jim Egan]

manbridge 74: Thanks for looking at my post and responding. Two other individuals who have physically looked at the wheels told me they were "real", may I ask what convinced you of the originality of them? Thanks, Jim

[patz]

The serial/part number or lack of, is the dead give away.