Collector car insurance - do any allow backup use?
 

I've been looking for collector car insurance for my 993 for a while, and the companies I've spoken to all expressly forbid using the collector car for backup use if the daily driver is in the shop for repairs. I have a pretty reliable DD, so I don't expect it to be broken down much, but that's not to say it won't happen one day a year or so. Are there any reputable collector's insurance companies that will allow backup use occasionally? Allstate is charging me a fortune for a non-agreed value policy, so I'm anxious to find an alternative.

I use American National. We have an agreed on value. I can indeed drive mine as a backup DD. The rates are excellent and great service.

I saw an episode of "My Classic Car" on The Speed Channel recently that spent an entire segment on Grundy Worldwide collector car insurance. The owner of the company stated that they don't exclude usage to work as long as each driver in the house has a primary vehicle (other than the collector car.) Their programs are also named value. I plan on giving them a call.

Grundy Worldwide

I just quoted myself on their website. Without asking me a single underwriting question, the rate for my '71 911T at a $25,000 agreed value was $197 for the year. That's with $300,000 CSL liability, basic Uninsured Motorist, and $0 deductible.

Assuming the rate's accurate and that they do actually allow other types of usage, it seems like a pretty good deal.

Call Hagerty Insurance. My '79 SC has an agreed value of $15K, (I should raise it considering what I've got into the car) with zero deductible for comp and collision. My ANNUAL premium is $275.00 plus $25.00 for roadside assistance and a Hagerty Discount Club card.
I stated 5000 miles per year, any way I can use them, to and from are okay but I also have another vehicle, they wanted the vin of that car and the insurance company and policy number.

I spoke to both Grundy and Hagerty today and asked specifically about using the insured collector vehicle as a backup in the event that my daily driver was in for repairs. Both said they do not allow the car to be used as a backup and it would not be covered if it was being used for that purpose. I saw that spot on 'My Classic Car' as well, and think that it was inaccurate with regards to Grundy's real-life usage restrictions.

FWIW, I also spoke to American Collector and they have the same usage restriction. They do, however, have an 'extended' policy that will allow the car to be used for backup duties, but the quote I was given for that policy was $964/year!

AAA put 25K compensation cost on our '86 while expressing
no concern about back-up use.

The AAA price range for the '86 is $15,000-$25,000.

We have 103K miles on this car.

Policy cost $223 includes:

Zero deductable all coverages collision, comp ect...

Liability $1,000,000

Property damage $250,000

Good luck,

Gerry

I find it hard to imagine that Hagerty--my insuror--would pay off on a collector car insured with them that was rear-ended at 0730 on a Monday in bumper-to-bumper commuter traffic. Wouldn't happen. For what it's worth, I pay them about $500 a year (exburban New York City) for an '83SC with an agreed value of $35,000, which is less than half of what I have in the car, and a million smooth in liability. My wife and I have three cars between us, and I use the SC freely on our rural roads whenever I wish. Other than commuting time...

I just got off the phone with AAA. They don't have agreed value policies, they just use the 'market value' of the car at the time a claim is made. That may or may not be better than NADA value, but it's not an agreed value. They told me to use a classic car insurance company instead.

Friends:

I used J.C. Taylor for over 25 years, and when the '65 Alfa set fire to itself on the main drag through Denver, they never even asked why I was driving it. They just sent an adjuster around to make sure I hadn't torched it myself then paid to fix it, wherever I wanted to have the work done. Great people to work with.

Because they sponsor the Colorado Grand, which I'm involved with, I now use Hagerty for three cars. All they asked was to see proof of insurance on my daily driver (not on their antique policy). I mentioned that I use one of the old cars on the track occasionally, and they just let me know I'm not covered there; no surprise that. In reality, apart from the legalese in the policy, neither of these insurance companies seems to make a fuss as long as you have a true daily driver. They don't seem to mind if you're driving the car to or from a shop for work--or even on a nice day just to exercise it for grins. The tops of two of my cars are never up, even when parked overnight in hotel lots on an event, so, of course, they are never locked. Same with $5 million 1950s Ferraris right next to them.

Frank

i use state farm and i pay ~$115 per year for full classic coverage with an agreed value of $25,000. when starting the policy i had to tell them the usage but my agent advised me that if i did not claim 75% of the annual usage (5000 miles or less) for shows, parades, repairs, etc they would reject the policy. there is nothing in it about excluding usage as a back up car but i do have 2 other cars and a bike which may have factored into the equation.

I use american collector. I'm allowed 5k miles/year. Car cannot be used for "general transportation," but can be used for "occasional pleasure drives."

My agreed value is $17k, 300k liability, $500 deductible, I pay $260/yr

I've used Farmer's insurance for years and so far been reasonably happy. I don't keep "collector's" car insurance on my '68 Beetle, but it is insured for a specific "pre-agreed" value. If damaged beyond that amount I will get only the agreed value. If damaged to a lesser degree I get up to the agreed value minus my deductible. I pay normal premiums as I would for any car insured at that same value-range. For me that means about $700 annually. If I want to change the agreed value by a significant amount they require two appraisals. One from a classic vehicle restorer (i.e. a good body shop who is willing to take the time to appraise the car), and one from a dealer. They are willing to basically split the difference between what the restorer says it is worth and what a dealer says the value is. I don't really know if that is standard Farmer's policy or if it is just a friendly local representative (sometimes it is nice living in an "small town").

Not ideal in some ways, but then again it does allow me to drive the car whenever and wherever I want with the knowledge that I'll get at least a good portion of the value of the car in case of disaster.

I just purchased a 912e and will be putting it on a similar plan with the same company come spring. I guess, at least for Farmer's, it doesn't matter much if they are insuring a 2003 Toyota for $10k or a 1968 VW for $10k as long as the policy-holder is paying about the same amount for it either policy.

I don't know if AAA in NorCal has the same policies as SoCal. I have my Porsche insured via AAA's collector policy (or whatever they call it). Agreed upon value. I told them what I wanted. They came to check out the car and okayed it. 5K mileage limit annually, but no restrictions otherwise. I can drive it to work. $250 per year. I live in L.A.

AAA So Cal just insured my '77 911 for 20K, up to 5000 miles, OK occasional to work, 1Mil liability for $160. No tickets, no claims in many years

You're right about Hagerty, I was insured by them, they assume garage queen and car shows on the weekends, which is fine if that's for you. I actually have better coverage with my normal insurer now and I can drive it whenever I want, for less with a better mutual value.

I need a "backup," my two daily drivers are a Land Rover and an Audi, both older. The 911 saves my butt sometimes.

Snead Collector car insurance has an option that will allow you to drive the car to work. I believe it was about $50 extra per year. They also seem to cater to Porsche.

Thanks for the suggestion. I just checked into Sneed and they do indeed have an option that allows for an occasional drive to work. The additional annual cost was actually less than $50. Their total annual premium was very competitive and about 1/2 of what I'm currently paying with Allstate. I think I'm going to go with them.

Wow! I work in insurance so I was listening closely to that Grundy guy. He must've really misrepresented his company. They spent a good amount of time on that show talking about his company and how different it was from every other collector car company, in specific their relaxed attitude toward vehicle usage. That's disappointing. Sorry for the goose chase.

This is from the Sneed Underwriting guidelines. Do you have to call and request a periodic driving to work rider? I would read from this it is not allowed. They also mention an appraisal is required if the stated value is above $40k. That is a pain.

SNEED ENCOURAGES CLASSIC CAR COLLECTORS TO ENJOY THEIR CARS WHETHER THAT BE A SUNDAY DRIVE OR CAR SHOW. SNEED INSURANCE DOES NOT INSURE VEHICLES USED FOR DAILY PRINCIPAL TRANSPORTATION. SNEED JUST ASKS THAT YOU NOT USE YOUR CLASSIC CAR FOR RUNNING ERRANDS OR DRIVING TO AND FROM WORK. (NO RACING. SNEED DOES NOT INSURE COLLECTIBLE VEHICLES WITH RACING EQUIPMENT ON THE VEHICLE)

I think the bottom line on all of this that has been discussed above is that insurors who insure collector cars,and who charge a commensurate rate, will not pay if the car is damaged or wrecked while it's commuting to or from work. If anybody tells you different, it's an insurance agent too anxious to sell the policy or somebody who is misinterpreting a clause in the contract.

I don't care what anybody says or where they heard it, dollars to doughnuts if you wreck your car in what is indisputably a commuting accident, they're not going to pay.

Prove me wrong at your own risk.

That is for their Collector Car insurance, they have a seperate category for Exotics, that Porsche is listed under.
Sneed's ad in the October issue of PCA's Panorama states: "Usage includes pleasure use plus occasional drive to and from work. No Racing. Subject to Underwritng Approval."

They do have agreed value with their collector car insurance.
Collector Car Insurance - Insurance Services - Automobile Club of Southern California

[QUOTE][That is for their Collector Car insurance, they have a seperate category for Exotics, that Porsche is listed under.
Sneed's ad in the October issue of PCA's Panorama states: "Usage includes pleasure use plus occasional drive to and from work. No Racing. Subject to Underwritng Approval."
/QUOTE]

Again from Sneed. I would not consider this Collector car insurance. 2010 MY - 14 = 1996MY or newer.


Exotic Vehicle - A vehicle manufactured in the most recent 14 years and which because of its specific make, model year of manufacture and exceptional physical condition, is considered to be increasing in value rather than depreciating in value.

Actually, you'd be surprised... I pondered the same question, got some varied opinions on forums, including an insurance expert who said in no uncertain terms that while those companies DO require you own a commuter, they DO NOT specifically exclude the use of your car to go to work... It's not written *anywhere*. The guy then challenged me to show him where that was written in the contract, and I could not....

So I decided to give Hagerty a call... I prefaced my question by mentioning that some competitors (SNEED for one) allowed me to show off my old car at work now and then...

The Hagerty rep said it was OK for me to drive my hagerty covered car to work "Now and then", and also to take the wife to dinner in it, 2 things I thought used to be big No-nos, as long as I have another car used as a commuter and it's not an everyday thing...

So there, from the horses mouth... I believe I even posted the email I got from them as a confirmation on this board... But I'm too lazy to search right now...

So unless someone reports a claim denial at 7:30 AM or 5PM on a monday, I'll go with what they told me ! None of this of course answers the "backup car" question, you'd have to read the fine print again or call them...

Ah hell, I searched.. Just for you Steve ;-)

Official Hagerty response below:

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Our policy is a flexible, limited use policy. We do not, however, limit you to just show and club use. Occasional pleasure driving fits our underwriting guidelines, but our policy is not intended for vehicles regularly driven to work or school or for running errands. We look for usage that is consistent with owning a valuable automobile and the availability of insured regular use vehicles for daily transportation. While the average mileage generally put on a collector vehicle is approximately 2,000-3,000 miles annually, our policy language does not state a specific mileage limitation. We are more concerned with how the vehicle is being used than how much.

With that in mind, while we do not want the vehicle regularly used for running errands like going to the store, please rest assured that your coverages (provided on the policy declarations page) follow you to places like that, the occasional night out at a restaurant (classic cars love a nice evening dinner cruise) and even when it is being worked on at a garage. You may certainly take your classic vehicle to work on a sunny day to show it off, as long as this would be infrequent and you have another vehicle available for your daily work use.

I hope this information is helpful to you. If you have additional questions, please feel free to call our office at (800)922-4050 and any one of our friendly agents will be happy to assist you. We are open Monday - Friday 8:30am - 8pm, Saturday 8:30am - 4pm and Sunday 12pm - 4pm (Eastern).

Sincerely,

Javonne Friley
Licensed Sales Agent
Hagerty Insurance Agency
(800)922-4050



So there you have it, in writing (kinda, but the email came with a tracking number and all), as long as it is "infrequent"! That's not as well defined as AMIG's policy of twice a week, but I suppose that is good enough to no switch over ?! What are they gonna do, interview my work colleagues and ask "how many times this month did you see the white 912 or the orange Bimmer, vs. the daily driver 911" ? I think not.. But anyway... I for one feel a little better taking the oldies to non-strictly pleasure runs now and then... (infrequently, I swear)

As I mentioned above, I did call them. And they said if the car is used as a backup while the DD is in the shop, then it is NOT covered.

If you go through the online quote process at Sneed's web site, there's an option for selecting occasional use of your insured vehicle as a backup.

I'm delighted you guys all have permission to occasionally commute in your car. (Uh, how do you prove it's "occasional," after the accident? Well, never mind.)

So I say go for it. And have a nice day.

+1 to this sarcastic response!
When I told my father about the collector policy I bought for my '71 ( he has around 35 years of experience in the insurance business, everything from autos to commercial property- marketing, underwriting, etc.), he said, " it's not driving to work you have to worry about, it's them paying, period. In my experince those types of policies rarely pay period." But since I'm not driving it right now, it's better to save money and still meet Ins. requirements.

Hmmm. Well, I may drive two days a week to work (rare occurrance at that), limited mileage per year, agreed value, about $320 a year, full coverage. Policy has a rider attached regarding the work (commute) use. I do it seldom, it ain't far, and of course I meet ALL their requirements; clean record, locking garage, etc. Knock on wood, let's face it....I'm a good, careful, defensive driver, and I guess they know it. They would pay, I intend to make sure they never have to. How would I prove I never drive much to work? Witnesses, i.e., co-workers, family, other people in business in the Company's area. Why would I risk driving too often, anyway?!? Might as well have ZERO insurance in that case....I can drive it when I get home....oh, and weekends!!

Oh, and the Company referred to back a few posts is "Sneed", not "Snead", through "American Modern Insurance" I believe. I am sure they DO allow such things as mentioned....depends on the individual circumstances, record, etc. I also think that folks shouldn't worry about companies "paying off" as long as you have things in writing and the company is well established, etc., like following their guidelines. Sarcasm (imagined or otherwise) has no bearing on the fine print. :cool:

Sneed also gives PCA members a 10% discount. in short, all insurance companies sux....look at AIG. they will tell you a different story each time you call them depending on the wind direction, humidity and time of day. the classic car insurance business has to be lucrative, there are so many of them around, and most customers fit the super low risk profile.

American collectors insurance has excellent coverage.

Heres the deal, as long as you have another car registered in your name with full coverage then they are legally obliged to pay out.

There is no way they can legally deny a claim if you happen to drive your classic to work one morning and it gets in a wreck or out to dinner one night or whatever else other than "racing" which is explicitly excluded.

+1. I think that puts it "to bed".....yes, the day is nice, thank you.

We're delighted that you're delighted,..and it would appear that they have "gone for it"...

A 993 is a "classic car"? I thought had to be over 25 years old to be considered classic. Geez I'm getting old!

But seriously...I'm glad I came across this thread. I'm going to look into collector insurance vs. conventional now.

"When I told my father about the collector policy I bought for my '71 ( he has around 35 years of experience in the insurance business, everything from autos to commercial property- marketing, underwriting, etc.), he said, " it's not driving to work you have to worry about, it's them paying, period. In my experince those types of policies rarely pay period."

Nothing wrong with collector-car insurance--I have it myself (Hagerty)--it's just the matter of getting paid. The Hagerty letter quoted has enough weasel words in it--"sunny day...occasional...to work to show it off..."--That nobody needs to pay a cent in claims if I'm driving my 911 to a parking garage in Manhattan on an overcast day. Who "shows their car off" to their co-workers in Manhattan? And of course if I get rear-ended on the way to the Metro North station to take the train into the City, all bets are off.

As I said earlier, go for it, and continue to have a nice day, as long as you're fully aware that the decision as to whether to pay a claim isn't made on an informal Internet forum, or based on a nebulously worded letter from some lower-level company rep. "I'm sorry, sir, that agent was wrong, as a careful reading of your policy will make plain, and we base our claims and payments on the policy. Besides, she no longer works here."

I've done a lot of hunting around since I first posted this thread and it looks to me that Sneed is the best choice for my needs. Good rates ($517/year for my 993), a policy that allows for backup use, and configurable mileage limitations. Based on some input from hootster2310, I'm going to give American Collector one more call and see what their latest options are, but I'm likely going to go with Sneed.