My PMO ITB Project

[brads911sc]

I am starting my PMO ITB Project. All parts are ordered and scheduled to arrive tomorrow. This Distributor will be sent to Barry at IAE in Detroit. He will rebuild, clean and convert it from Vacuum to Mechanical advance and curve it 30-32 degrees.

Here is a list of the parts that are on the way. My intention is to detail every step:
Ill post real pics as parts come in and work begins.

PMO ITB Kit -- 40 mm, comes with the K & N Watershield Air Cleaners, PMO Linkage, Insulators, PMO Billet Vacuum Manifold, and Delco Throttle Position Sensor...



MS Relay Board. This is a new twist to many ITB projects here on Pelican. I think it will allow a clean engine bay. will allow a more period correct look and will avoid direct wiring components into the ECU or having stray relays and fuses in the engine bay. THis is something that is missing on the Bitz Kit and other MS based EFI systems.


This Relay is wired directly to the ECU.
The ECU will be a MS-2 V 3.57. This is the latest ECU and has many updated features that really improves its plug and play. I think there are very few ITB projects that are done with MS2 V3.57 and I hope that what I learn will help others as they consider EFI using ITB's.

IAT ia ordered. The IAT is the AEM Power 30-2010 - AEM Air Inlet Temperature Sensor Kit.


The Fuel Regulator and Guage is the Aeromotive Compact EFI Fuel Regulator 13105. I purchased the matching guage.



The O2 is the wideband LC-1 by Innovate.

The fuel injectors are ACCEL 150624 - 24# High Impedance injectors.


I will use SS fuel line with AN-6 connectors for the entire setup.

This project is not cheap. I have 4k into it and the distributor work will be another $550. I anticipate that the total cost will be about 4,750.

This is about 1k more than PMO Carbs and 2k less than a complete system from Clewitt.

Let the fun begin.

Stay Tuned! Thanks in advance to all who have done this before for answering my constant questions.

Brad

[sc_rufctr]

Will be watching this thread.

Good luck with the whole deal.

[Trog]

Have you considered machining a port into the intake manifolds to provide an air path for cold starts? I figured a 1/8” port, drilled into the flange of the intake; just below the injector would make a good location to introduce an air stream during start-up. I believe Jenvey does something similar.

[turbochad]

Brad, I look forward to your ITB journey. That is some serious money and commitment. Does the ECU software come with a base fuel map set up for your engine or do you have to figure that out yourself? Did you source the ECU separately or did PMO sell it with the other components? It is going to look really cool and I imagine the tuning will be fun to experiment with.
Chad

[Jeff Alton]

Good choice on the injectors. I run the 32lb version on my 3.4 and they work well.

Cheers

[JeremyD]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Stay Tuned!

That's the whole idea, right? What's this going on? 3.0?

[brads911sc]

This is an interesting idea... I am definitely open to the idea... I was hoping the IAT would help with Idle performance...
Do you have issues with cold idle. Something you have been able to get to an acceptable level with adjustments in the software?

Originally Posted by Trog

Have you considered machining a port into the intake manifolds to provide an air path for cold starts? I figured a 1/8” port, drilled into the flange of the intake; just below the injector would make a good location to introduce an air stream during start-up. I believe Jenvey does something similar.

[brads911sc]

3.0, SSI's, Backdated exhaust, MSD, 100% stock inside the engine.

Originally Posted by JeremyD

That's the whole idea, right? What's this going on? 3.0?

[Trog]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

This is an interesting idea... I am definitely open to the idea... I was hoping the IAT would help with Idle performance...
Do you have issues with cold idle. Something you have been able to get to an acceptable level with adjustments in the software?

ITB's do not offer any idle control. The engine runs poorly until it reaches operating temp and I need to feather the throttle to keep it running when cold. I can improve idle characteristics with an idle control valve. The problem is where to introduce the air? Jenvey seems to have an elegant solution that I may try some time in the future. This problem get's much worse in our winters with our colder/denser air.

[brads911sc]

Bought my fully assembled ECU (MS-2, V 3.57), Relay board, All the wiring needed, all sensor/injector wiring pigtails -- from DIY Auto Tune -- DIYAutoTune.com Megasquirt Kits / Assembled Engine Management Systems, Wideband o2 Sensor Systems and tuning products (was $655). They have a great reputation in the MS community and are one of 2-3 USA based vendors recommended by the guys who created MS (Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo). Dont have any base Maps. A couple pelicans that are running ITB's have offered to give me their base Maps... at least as a starting point.

To put this into perspective for those considering MS-2 with the TBitz kit, when I consulted Tony for the MS-2 V3.0 ECU and wiring Harnesses (FI and Main) it was $650. I would have had to fab someing for fuses and relays, and more important, I wanted the latest version of the MS2 because you can use jumpers for most of the features that on V3 require soldering. His base maps wont work in ITB's and some of the critical features needed for ITB's are disabled in his software so I would have had to start over on the software side. So his ECU really wouldnt have worked for my application right out of the box.

To be fair, I am sure this is going to be 100x more complicated and time intensive in tuning time than just going with his entire kit... But if you are running ITB's, my approach on the ECU seems to be the least costly, least time intensive, and most practical on the hardware/software side. It is often much easier to start at zero than to try to figure out all the values that need to change in a system set up for a different application.

PMO doesnt sell anything but the ITB's and related hardware.

Here are the new additions in V 3.57 that are not included in V 3.0.

1. 90% of components converted to surface mount. This standardizes the part numbers used, as well as the assembly process, resulting in consistently high quality.

2. All standard ignition input setting are now easily set by jumper shunts, no need to bust out your soldering iron to change your base hardware ignition configuration anymore!

3. Pulse-Width Modulated (PWM) Idle Valves are now natively supported by the PCBv3.57 hardware without the need for modification. This is one of the coolest features as this was a very common modification that will no longer be needed.
The circuitry on the PCBv3.57 will control a standard on/off fast idle valve, or a 2/3 wire PWM Idle valve!

5. Enhanced I/O Capabilities
DB15 Added for bringing signals into/out of the ECU
Common signal pickup points (IE 'top of the LEDs, etc') are brought out to easily accessible solder pads

6. LEDs are surface mounted

Originally Posted by turbochad

Brad, I look forward to your ITB journey. That is some serious money and commitment. Does the ECU software come with a base fuel map set up for your engine or do you have to figure that out yourself? Did you source the ECU separately or did PMO sell it with the other components? It is going to look really cool and I imagine the tuning will be fun to experiment with.
Chad

[brads911sc]

I understand. I am willing to help develop a solution as part of my process if I can keep the additional cost to a minimum. My wife will kill me if I add a bunch of extras to this project at this point... -- I do one major upgrade/modification per off season and I was trying to keep this at 4k. Already exceeded that by $750.

Originally Posted by Trog

ITB's do not offer any idle control. The engine runs poorly until it reaches operating temp and I need to feather the throttle to keep it running when cold. I can improve idle characteristics with an idle control valve. The problem is where to introduce the air? Jenvey seems to have an elegant solution that I may try some time in the future. This problem get's much worse in our winters with our colder/denser air.

[brads911sc]

Originally Posted by Trog

Have you considered machining a port into the intake manifolds to provide an air path for cold starts? I figured a 1/8” port, drilled into the flange of the intake; just below the injector would make a good location to introduce an air stream during start-up. I believe Jenvey does something similar.

Trog,

Couldnt you use the existing Air Bypass Screws on the PMO's? They are right next to the Vacuum ports. Does anything exist out there to use those ports.

Just a thought.

Brad

[Shaun @ Tru6]

sub'd

[TimT]

FWIW we have built a number of engines with ITBs and not used idle control valves. These engines start and idle from cold, although Im not sure if NY winter temps are comparable to your location. Sometimes a small hole drilled in each butterfly is enough.

[brads911sc]

Originally Posted by TimT

FWIW we have built a number of engines with ITBs and not used idle control valves. These engines start and idle from cold, although Im not sure if NY winter temps are comparable to your location. Sometimes a small hole drilled in each butterfly is enough.

Im in houston, so definitely not an issue for me... But would be interested in knowing if someone has created something for this issue...

[Trog]

You don't want to interfere with the MAP reading. Sharing the vacuum port may result in unanticipated results.

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Trog,

Couldnt you use the existing Air Bypass Screws on the PMO's? They are right next to the Vacuum ports. Does anything exist out there to use those ports.

Just a thought.

Brad

[brads911sc]

Originally Posted by Trog

You don't want to interfere with the MAP reading. Sharing the vacuum port may result in unanticipated results.

Didnt mean the Vacuum ports, meant the air bypass screws/ports. If you unscrew them you will have a machined port. All you would need is a idle control setup that screwed into them... similar to the one in your pic. Probably wont start drilling on mine since im in Houston. It was 80 degrees yesterday...

[brads911sc]

Here is my current engine bay. Cant wait to get rid of all that CIS crap...

[Trog]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Didnt mean the Vacuum ports, meant the air bypass screws/ports. If you unscrew them you will have a machined port. All you would need is a idle control setup that screwed into them... similar to the one in your pic. Probably wont start drilling on mine since im in Houston. It was 80 degrees yesterday...

You need to keep those screws in place in order to balance your ITB's once everything is up and running. Good thought though.

Where's that damn global warming they promised us? It's freezing up here in the great white north.

[Trog]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Here is my current engine bay. Cant wait to get rid of all that CIS crap...

Are you keeping your A/C? Some have experienced clashes with their ITB's.