Remove my CIS while in car
 

For anyone who has considered removing the cis to get to the breather gasket etc and believes that they have to drop the engine or do a partial drop, i want to let you know that you can remove the CIS system while in the car, without too much aggravation.

Blew an airbox, the box was old and fatigued and cracked so i had to replace it.

I have mid rise lift but i did not want to drop the engine and did not want to do a partial drop here is how i did it.

DISCONNECT THE BATTERY!

1. Remove the air filter cover.
2. Remove the duct work for the oa fan.
3. remove the oa fan.
4. On the drivers side at the front of the motor there is a brace that holds the one side of the air box. it is connected to the accelerator plate that is fastened to the engine with a 13mm nut. It requires a 13 mm socket,, remove it.
5. on the passenger side on the front most intake runner there is a 13 mm bolt that holds another brace. remove it.
6. Remove all intake runner nuts. 12mm socket required.
7. Using a large flat head screwdriver (i used a brake adjustment tool), Pry out the injector on the back most driver's side intake runner.
8. Loosen the rubber clamp screws on this runner. If you cant get to them then loosen any of the rubber clamp screws that you can get too.
9. With the clamp screws loose or removed, wrestle the intake runner out of the sleeve and off of the bolts.
10. Do all of the drivers side runners first. Plug the intake holes with paper towels.
11. Remove the throttle linkage connector.
12. remove the accelerator plate spring.
13. remove the 5mm allen bolts for the wur.
14. ,oosen the rubber boot clamps that connect the fd to the throttle. Remove the throttle housing 4-5mm bolts.
15. remove the fuel distributor 6-5mm bolts with springs, i use a small magnet to keep to not loose anything.
16. I left all fuel lines connected and removed a vacuum line from the throttle body and covered the fd with plactic and moved it back.
17. With the drivers side runners off, and all hoses and vacuum lines disconnected from the air box, you should be able lift up the air box and runners up and out of the car.

18. Get new: throttle body o-ring, intake gaskets, oil switch, thermostat o-ring, o-rings for the injectors, o-rings for the injector sleeves, new injector sleeves, new breather hose, new over-flow hose (under the air box that on mine runs through the fire wall and down), new fuel distributor gasket. That is all i can think of to get.

19. Remove the injector by grinding off the 3 tabs on the intake runners. drive the old injector sleeves out, mine came out easily. Put the new injector sleeves in and make new tabs (stakes) using a pin drift (this was the hardest thing for me to do).

After you clean everthing and put in new gaskets etc. Re-install is fairly straight forward but:
1. put on the passenger side front most runner first do not connect to the intake.
2. Put a new o-ring on the injector (soak the o-rings in gasoline for 5 minutes). I used and crescent wrench and some wood blocks to press the injector into the sleeve, use a plactic knife filed down flat and about 1/4 inch wide to help push the o-ring into place. I needed to do this on 2 injectors.
3. Do the same to the middle one, then the back one. put in place each time an tighten the clamps,, liift up to get access and put the next one on and so on.
3. Put on the new intake gaskets.
4. after you have the passenger side intake runners on and fuel injectors installed. then start with the MIDDLE intake runner on the drivers side (it is lowest).
5 then the front one and so on.
6. takes time but it is doable, the injector sleeve stake-on tabs and tightening the passenger side front most intake runner bolts was the hardest..

u cant its and engine out job

BS... I have done it.

how'd you do it??

Pretty much as above. It's hard but it can be done.
Having a mirror about 4 inches wide and 2 inches high helps.
If you place it at the firewall it and it gives you a better look at the rear nuts securing the air box.

I never liked the idea of a partial engine drop. Either full drop or leave it.

i have done it ... I only had to lower the engine about 3 inches at the back .. took me 90 minutes from getting the jack to having the whole CIS on the workbench .. it is not about technical ability , it is more about being organized...

in my mind this is the right way to do it and you can replace all the runner gaskets and make sure the rubber sleeves aren't stressed.

I have done it without lowering the engine. Just pop the hood and start removing stuff.

Not my car, another Pelican user.

It isn't easy, but it certainly can be done.

Should read removed my cis instead of remove.
 

The removal is not that difficult, I did not lower the engine at all, it is a pain but if you take your time and follow my outline, (think drivers side runners first and loosen the braces in the back of the box, then you can do it. The first time it took me about 3 hours to remove it, but I think i can remove it in less than 2 the next time.

It is a puzzle to put back together but most parts only can be installed in one manner so it makes it fairly simple to do.

If there is a special tool to make the stake-ons (tabs) for the injector sleeves i would purchase or make one as that is the only problem i encountered that caused me any concern. I was afraid of breaking the injector sleeves when making new stake-on tabs with a drift pin punch.

I did not want to have exposed gasoline in the garage so i did not remove any of the fuel lines or injectors.

my back says the only way to do it is to drop the engine :)

Well, Youre dealing with a 75, piece of cake, try the same on a 80-83, its a completely different ball of wax.
Bruce

i had to replace the oil thermo stat. i considered both options and opted for an engine drop. glad i did. i did some other stuff while it was out. valve adjustment is much easier for one. i also corrected cam timing which was advanced by PO, not on purpose. i suspected it was off when i bought it.

There is some merit to that comment. There is a lot of bending over. A hoist or scissor lift would be a big help.

The Porschemonkey and I did it on my car (77 w/80 engine and CIS) this spring. I don't know if it is easier or faster than by dropping the engine because I haven't done it by doing the drop. He suggested it and I feel everything went fine.

Yeah, but what up w/ that banana breath?

BTW, didn't the monk have a 90C4, Paul?

I would have to agree w/ Flat6Packon the later SC's. There is no way in hell to get all that stuff off w/o dropping the motor somewhat. I just replaced my 83SC airbox using the partial drop method and it must of taken me a month of Sundays. Not one nut, bolt, screw or clamp came off easily-every fastener fought me every inch of the way! It was truly agony. I only went with the partial drop because of limited space issues and I didn't want to get into rebuilding everything under the car like I know I would have been tempted to do if the motor was out.

Next time it all gets dropped!

In six minutes it takes you to put your the car on jack-stands, put the jack under the engine and loosen the mounting bolts, to lower it 4-6 inches. You don't have to unplug anything or do anything special, it is not voodoo or rocket science, the Dr made it easy for a reason.

Make it easy on yourself...lower the engine.SmileWavy

here are some pictures I did on removing the CIS from a 1981sc. With the motor in the car! took about 2 hours from start to finish. Not a big deal.

before
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1258417598.jpg
after
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1258417626.jpg
all the parts on the bench
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1258417654.jpg
I didn't put it back in (went with carbs), but I could have.

Putting it back is the hard part.....

Guys,

Appreciate it is an old thread. But I am about to pull my CIS (83 EURO).

Two questions.

1. Do you remove the driver side intake runners leave the pax intake runners connected and pull it out? Or do you leave the drive side intake runners connectd as well?

2. Did it go in again without an engine drop (partial)?

Michel

i dropped my engine about 2 inches or so ,, didnt even undo the shifter rod , although i wouldnt recomend it as its easy enough to set back up .

Took the whole thing out in one piece.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1320091522.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1320091565.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1320091605.jpg

that's cuz it's a 78. up to 79, not too much pretzyl man stuff. 80-83, i'd rather take it out. too much crap you can't get at worth a damn.

yeah the plastic fuel lines really helped :)

After doing, and over-seeing, many air box removal/replacement jobs, I wrote a chart which can be found on page 135 of the 8th Edition of my book. A column in that chart is "Engine removal required?" For 1973.5-'75 the answer is no. For 1976-'83 models the answer is yes (partial drop OK but that's actually harder on your back than having access to all sides of the engine).

Thank you all.

Mine is a 83 SC with the hard fuel lines.

It is out of the car now. No engine drop not even a partial one.

I have removed all the full lines to the injectors and the pope's hat. That gave me plenty of room.

I removed the driver side runners first -this was unnecessary.

I removed the pax runnner closest to the back of the car. That was necessary as it gave me a shot on the last bolt of the front intake runner on that side. That bolt alone took me half an hour. If yours isn't seized then you should not need to take the runner out.

I had to cut the oil breather hose as the ring spanner was rusted. No big deal. New hose.

Would i recommend it? No. If you have the room for an engine drop do it. I am sure it will not make you quicker but it will indeed be easier on the back.

Watch this space.

Michel

Iceman? ARe those before pictures? That is clean!

Was it necessary to actually remove the fuel lines themselves? Or could it be done without disconnecting them?

I am about to take mine all apart so that I can replace ALL of my runner seals, the airbox gasket and thoroughly go through my car once and for all and have the peace of mind knowing everything is done.

I hate disconnecting fuel lines and reconnecting them over and over again, so it'd be nice if I didn't have to, of course, if it ends up being necessary it is what it is.

All I really need to do is replace my runner boots, runner seals and the airbox gasket.

I believe it is necessary to remove all fuel lines. If you do not you will damage one of them or you need to do a partial engine drop to get it all out.

On my car they came apart quite easily. It looks like they are made of quality material.

You certainly have to disconnect the three fuel lines at the back of the fuel distributor. You could disconnect those as well at the fuel filter.

Michel

Cool thanks for the info Vereeken.

Four reasons why we took the engine out of the car;

1. Anytime fuel lines are disconnected the risk of contamination in the fuel system becomes very high.
2. Avoid damage to the engine compartment insulation pad (95% of the cars that we maintained still had a blanket, and most were in good/excellent condition).
3. Dealing with the right side support bracket at cylinder #6 is just too difficult on cars with automatic cold start ('76 >), especially installation. And that bracket and its rubber support must be installed correctly, without it the fuel mixture will change with vibration.
4. For aesthetic reasons, it's virtually impossible to have the runner sleeve hose clamps turned/facing the original direction.

And then, there's the air leak issue. When the entire airbox system is assembled on the bench, and lowered directly onto the engine, air leaks become a non-issue.

Peter,

Number 3 is interesting. What is an automated Cold Start System. Do you mean the Thermal Valve and CSV?

For one reason or another I can not seem to get a good seal on intake runner #3 at the cillinder head. Even with a new gasket. I have checked the runner base and cilinder connecting point and they are smooth.

This intake runner has a bracket attached that holds the hard fuel lines to the back of the FD. Is it possible that vibration from this bracket brakes the seal?

Michel

Well,

The cleaning has begun.

first thing I found was that the foam seal between the plunger plate/Fuel distributor assembly that sits atop the airbox is completely gone.

I do not think it is very important as the false air that you suck at that point still has to go through the meter plate and in that sense never becomes false air. But ofcourse it is not filtered.

The rubber O-rings from the CSV and throttle body look intact and if you would throw them between new ones you would not be able to tell the difference.

Second surprise. The CSV has an air line going to it and draws air. The air line is connected to the AAV which is connected to the air intake So again metered and filtered air.

Would air always go trough or does the AAV close after start up? How does this AAV open close? It has no electrical connections and is not heated by engine. Or does the CSV not only command fuel injection but also air?

Michel

Old fat guy did it.
 

SmileWavy Just thought I'd put my two cents worth in here about CIS removal. I'm 61 yrs old and just removed the CIS out of my 80 SC in about 3 hours with no dropping engine. I followed silvers directions. There were a few difficult parts to reach but it wasn't really too bad. I hadn't planned to drive the car untill spring warmup so I can clean the area up and find out why no cold start. One of the vacuum lines was disconnected so that may be the culprit.
I love this forum and the incredible amount of info available. Many thanks to the people that give their time to help and to Pelicans supprt.

3 hours is about right. Not easy on the back though.

Also a good time to take the engine shrouding off and paint it with high temp paint.

Freshens up the place.

Michel

I took it out of my 83 a couple of years ago and in the process scratched the paint on the fender when some element got hooked on something and my attention went to unhooking it. I was beside myself pissed.

It's very heavy and awkward. I honestly can't recall if I did a partial drop or not.

Since I felt like putting it back in with the engine in place would be like building a ship in a bottle, I had a friend come over and we did a quick drop and reinstall.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1323038935.jpg