Need purchasing help fast!!!

[ComputerBob]

I’m seriously thinking of purchasing this vehicle tonight. After reading a previous post is it not worth it even with only 52K miles on it? Does that kit really kill the resale? I was going to get it for my daily driver (Only work 5 miles from home) Any input would be greatly appreciated. I love the look regardless if it's a knock off. Is this car not "respected" amongst the 911 community? I’m an ex-E38 guy and a hardcore DIY’er……

Here’s the previous post:

Real M491 OR ?

Here’s the add:

Classic1984 Porsche 911

[Bill in OKC]

The car is apparently not 'factory' but if you like it, that is what really matters. The price is what I paid for my m491 but it was pretty rough 4 years ago. I've read that the front needs the chin spoiler to go with the tail or it gets squirrely at speed - maybe not an issue for work transportation. That is my 2 cents, I hope others will give you more guidance.
edit: mileage will be 'iffy' in a '84 - the odometers have a gear that commonly fails. Mine had 117K on it when I bought it but the odometer was broken. It was an easy fix.

[ComputerBob]

German car enthusiasts are the best! Being an ex E38 guy it seems the comradely is the same on every board...Thanks as always from a 911 newbie.....

I love the look. I'm just worried it’s not worth the money. I can get it for 15k...
Or should I just calm down, breathe and look for a better deal. I only want a white wide body 84-89 in that price range. I would just end up "kitting" a car if I couldn’t find one and I’m sure that would put me over budget.

Robert Adam’s (Original Poster) was kind enough to reply to an email that stated the mechanics/body are in great shape

[Shadetree930]

Originally Posted by ComputerBob

I'm just worried it’s not worth the money.

It's not. My opinion. The mods really do devalue the car.

On the other hand ... if the base mechanicals are rock solid and you understand what exactly you are buying and most importantly ... if YOU like it, where else can you get a fun DD for that kind of money.

Just understand ... this particular car is NOT an investment type purchase. Buy it and treat it like a driver.

[twistoffat]

Don´t rush in with your heart pounding and a fist full of money. Take a step back and think rationally about it. There is a reason why it hasn´t been sold yet.

[ComputerBob]

Great words of wisdom Shadetree930!! It took me years to learn that on the BMW's! Its hard to enjoy something if you worry about it every five minutes. Exactly, just drive the damn thing!

I just want a nice 3.2 911 "turbo looking thing" to have fun in for a few years that I could possibly get my money back on down the road. I do plan on putting a chip, cat, an intake on it.....

With that said are these cars fast with those minimal types of mod's? Are they faster than a BMW 740iL on the open highway?

[kidrock]

I think it's a very nice car, but the 55K seems questionable. I'd do a bit more homework on this one.

[Shadetree930]

Originally Posted by ComputerBob

With that said are these cars fast with those minimal types of mod's? Are they faster than a BMW 740iL on the open highway?

They are 'fast enough' to get you in trouble on any public road. But you compare an apple to an orange when you do the 911-740 thing. They serve different purposes.

You want fun, get a 911.
You want fast, get a 930 (and btw ... you will still giggle like a little English schoolgirl).
You want an autobahn cruiser, meh ... get a 740.

[Dueller]

Fast?...hmmmm. By what standard? When new the 911 was one of the "fastest" production cars around with a top speed of 152-ish. 0-60 in the 6+ second range. BY todays standards there are any number of japanese cars you can buy used for less money that will outrun it in the stoplight Grand Prix (Suburu WRX, Nissan 350Z, modified Hondas, etc.), Late 90's M3's at $8-10K will give it a fit. Keep in mind that the wider, less aerodynamic body of the turbo look willl cut into the top end a bit but how often are you gonna be pushing the top speed envelope? And if you do buy this car put a chin spoiler on it if you plan to run 90+ with regularity.

I guess with their go-cart handling abilities and long legs at high speed I would consider them (NA 911's...930's are a different matter) "quick" rather than "fast." And on a desolate stretch of road I've run 130+ in a stable lope for long periods and the car is as stable as a rock.

Still nothing like it...I love mine. But to paraphrase another saying; "Tis better to let people think you're 'fast' than to race them and prove you're only quick."

[McLovin]

The miles are inaccurate, you can be sure of that. Does it come with service records? What does Carfax say? The car should be treated at a "true mileage unknown" car for valuation purposes.

The fiberglass just plain kills the value. It really does. There's a good chance you'll start to see cracks in it down the road, where the flares were joined to the car. If that happens, you're screwed.

Given current pricing on honest Carreras, $15K is to high for that fiberglassed '84, IMO. I think $12K on the far outside, but more like $10K.

[Dueller]

Ok...I've looked at your original post and the ad again as well as the merketplacew thread. While I don't agree with McLovin that its a $10K car, the sweet spot for value is probably in the 12-15K range as subjective as that may be.

Things that affect it's future "value":
regular 84 911 with 'glass fenders/front spoiler...not a true M491 car
A/C not working because its not there...been deleted (sure you want it as a DD with no a/c and black interior?)
There are a butt load of Carrera's that are pristine and stock relatively speaking...this car will never be valuable enough to restore back to stock and it will never really be a M491 factory car
Interior door cards replaced with RS style
Upgraded width Fuchs (I think)

Now from a purist point of view the above may detract from its future value.

OTOH it may be desireable to someone who want's a replica M491 car that's been done. On the third hand, for someone who wants to build a budget clone of say a 1974 RSR they'll only need to replace bumpers, glass in the rear fender vents, a 'glass tail, throw in a roll bar and slap some graphics on the side/paint the wheel centers...voila!

You's got to decide what it is you want. It will never be a garage queen 84 Carrera collectible nor will it be a real $20K+ Turbo look. But it looks like it is in good shape other than that. Even if you pay $15K for it and drive it for a few years, you'll never lose more than $3-4K at worst. And you'll never make anything other than the miles of smiles any decent 911 brings.

[berettafan]

in a thousand years that car is not worth any 5 digit amount in my opinion. i too doubt the likelihood of the mileage and would be quite surprised to see a sheaf of maintenance receipts.

add to this the idea of making it a DD for a 5 mile commute....your 911 experience is going to be less than positive i fear.

in my absolutely honest, mean this in the best way, hope you take this with the helpful intent it is given opinion that car is bad story just waiting to happen and will only get worse with time. it's value, assuming there was cutting involved when the flares were put on, is in parts.

go back through the for sale ads here and look for the stunning carrera 'kilodawg' sold this past year. IIRC the price was roughly $17k and that car was head and shoulders over 80% of the carreras i've seen for sale in recent history.

[McLovin]

It is of course difficult to judge condition based on 4 pictures, but I see nothing to indicate that the car is in "good shape."

1. You have a seller who is either very ignorant or a liar, insisting it is an M491 car (I'll go with the latter).

2. You have claimed low miles that are almost certainly not true. That is not a 50K mile drivers seat, from the picture alone. I'm sure a personal look at the car by anyone with any experience will lead to the conclusion that the miles are not anywhere near accurate.

3. The car has had a lot of "cheap" stuff done to it. Why would anyone do fiberglass flares? Steel flares aren't that expensive. Fiberglass is the sign of someone who was very cheap. My guess is the car was in an accident, and the work was done as part of the "repair." I'd not buy that car without having the chassis ("frame") looked at very closely.

4. Other indications of cheapness and "dreaded owner" stuff, like the AC stops working so instead of fixing it, or just leaving it alone, someone rips out the compressor (leaving everything else behind).

5. I'm going to guess there are no service records or history on the car.

6. The Fuchs are gone, replaced with some tacky cheap wheels.

In conclusion, this is a car with a checkered history, true miles unknown, that has been ridden hard and put away wet, sold by a dishonest seller.

I value it at parts car value. I personally wouldn't pay $10K for it, I think if he is lucky, he can find a sucker at $10-12K. Hopefully that is someone other than you.

[don gilbert]

Bob, if thats what you want, and it checks out ok (good engine, trans,no rust, no more than a gallon of bondo)its worth 15k. mileage is probably incorrect, but so are most. who cares. you cant go out and buy a carrerra and add the widbody kit for that price. (if thats what you want) If you are buying a car for future resale value, go buy an old mustang or something. Most here buy and restore these cars out off passion, not what they are worth. I have 30g in a 75 targa, but i built the car i always wanted. will i get 30 for it. no way, but i don't care. some of these guys are putting 100g in rs clones. finding steel fenders is not hard, i'll sell you a left and rt for 300.00 if the fiberglass bothers you.

[gregwils]

There are way too many concerns here - most of all the issue about the M491. If they are misrepresenting the car's equipment can you trust any other statement they make?

White, red and black are THE most common 911 colors. Here is a white '86 up in Princeton, at least you should go look at it and drive it this weekend, then use it as a benchmark to judge this car. If you still come to the same conclusion after a few days to cool off and another car to consider, it's your money.

Also, INSIST on a PPI. Contact the local PCA club officers to get a recommended shop, then pay for a quality inspection.


White '86

PS - It's your decision, but I'm not sure I would spend $10k on this car based on the seller's credibility issues.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by ComputerBob

.....
With that said are these cars fast with those minimal types of mod's? Are they faster than a BMW 740iL on the open highway?

This car is going to be slower than a narrow body. Wide body=more air resistance.

If you are going to buy it, get a PPI.

And realize it's been for sale awhile, practically that should say something about the price/value.

[aigel]

I suggest you have this car checked out by a local Porsche specialist with a full PPI before you buy. Also get a Carfax history. There is no rush buying one of these cars - they are available all the time. Keep cool and analyze what you are presented and also analyze what this is worth on the market - you may like the looks but that is not a car that's desired by the majority of buyers in the market for a wide body.

George

[NY91184]

value is all relative to history. well documented=$$, poor documentaition=walk away

[ComputerBob]

You guys are great!

I just want to add some incite. I have been speaking to the owner for about three weeks now. He’s a Philadelphia transit cop. He’s definitely not a Porsche guy. He bought the car a few years ago from a place in NV thinking it was a M491 from the add pictures. He had a PPI done prior to buying the car. It checked out mechanically. However he wanted a wide body look so he bought it knowing it wasn’t the real deal. He’s definitely not hiding anything about it being a M491. He just didn’t know until he tried to sell the car how undesirable it was to the hardcore “Porsche Guy.”

I’ve traded emails with folks that checked out the car. Although they passed due to the kit, they said the car was in great shape physically and mechanically (Porsche guys) The “Bondo” points all checked out where the kit meets the body (No cracking). The car had good power, tight steering, and ride….

Trust me, I’m not trying to sell this car to you guys nor feed my impulsive behavior. My dilemma is where else am I going to find an already “Built” wide body in this shape for under 15K. I don’t have the time or money to get a “Base” Carrera then kit it, paint it, etc…. (I just got to have a WB or nothing at all)

I fully understand this is not an investment but a fun daily driver for the next 2 years or so. I just want it to look and run good for that time period. However I value the opinion of this board more than my impulsiveness…..

With that said thumbs up or thumbs down? (I would get a PPI first)

[NewfieMZ3]

ComputerBob, I agree with some others here. As long as you have full knowledge of what the car is and you think you will be happy with it...........strong mechanicals, etc. Then knock him down as far as you can.........personally 12-13K......with the full knowledge that if you decide to sell it you will face the same challenge as this current seller. Remember.....no history, unknown mileage ( That seat wear is a real indication). But if it satisfies you.....and you only....knock your socks off. Good Luck