Old Problem, Different Car! Water Leak Passenger Side Jump Seat Floor!

[Vincent Hill]

I went through this on the 1976 911s and changed the Door Gaskets and everything! Now the same problem on the 1982 911 SC! I pulled up the carpet and dried everything and then put down a pad of paper towels. I see that it is right at the inside base line of the Floor Pan and Rocker side starting at about the "B" Pillar to the curve at the seat base. I also see a small 1 inch by 1/2 inch Black Plastic Plug but cannot tell if that is where the problem lies.

Yes, it has a Sun Roof but the drains are clear (I use an old speedometer Cable that is about 8 feet long to check on things with the drians). Anyone here "KNOW" what causes this?

The crazy thing is a few days ago I saw water under the Right side of the car like it had accumulated some where and was slowly draining out. Also, the car has been sitting under the Car Port and only the Tail section stuck out so the water could hit right at the Front edge of the trunk lid. The rest of the car was dry.

Then I parked the car so that the front end (About mid wheel well) was out and the rest of the car was dry and the water continues to come in. I even went so far as to put in the Plastic Plugs that Porsche makes in the Floor Holes but ran out before I finished this area where there are 2 holes left. Anyone else have this problem?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Vincent A Hill

I went through this on the 1976 911s and changed the Door Gaskets and everything! Now the same problem on the 1982 911 SC! I pulled up the carpet and dried everything and then put down a pad of paper towels. I see that it is right at the inside base line of the Floor Pan and Rocker side starting at about the "B" Pillar to the curve at the seat base. I also see a small 1 inch by 1/2 inch Black Plastic Plug but cannot tell if that is where the problem lies.

Yes, it has a Sun Roof but the drains are clear (I use an old speedometer Cable that is about 8 feet long to check on things with the drians). Anyone here "KNOW" what causes this?

The crazy thing is a few days ago I saw water under the Right side of the car like it had accumulated some where and was slowly draining out. Also, the car has been sitting under the Car Port and only the Tail section stuck out so the water could hit right at the Front edge of the trunk lid. The rest of the car was dry.

Then I parked the car so that the front end (About mid wheel well) was out and the rest of the car was dry and the water continues to come in. I even went so far as to put in the Plastic Plugs that Porsche makes in the Floor Holes but ran out before I finished this area where there are 2 holes left. Anyone else have this problem?

I'd suspect the windshield seals--possibly both front and back. Water will seek the lowest point and that is the rear floor pan. Leakage from either seal could easily wind up there.

The first experiment could expose the seal lower corners to water--a notorious spot for a leak.

I question the second experiment where only the front of the car--from mid-wheels forward--is accurate. It's virtually impossible for water to enter the cab from that location unless the splash enters the trunk at the cowl and the car is sloped down, rearward. More likely, the water was already in the car and oozed to the location, or the car was wetter than you believed.

How old are your windshield seals, and what condition are they in?

[rs6er]

I get water leaking in on the rear floor from the rear windshield seal. When it came from the front seal, I only had it in front.

[Vincent Hill]

I Love this place! I was thinking of Everything "EXCEPT" the Rear Window! And Yes I think that there was More water than expected and it may just have finished the accumulation and ended up on the floor! I have some very good sealer that flows very nicely that stopped a problem with my Chevy Asto Van! I will make sure everything has dried up and then run this around the real window and let it set then see where we are!

OssiBlue and Specially RS6er much appreciated! (RS6 that post on the Shift lever gave me insite!)

[rs6er]

Please let me know what the sealer is called. I still can't leave my car out in the rain without a tarp (I did replace the front seal.) If that is the problem, the carpet on the bulkhead perpendicular to the rar seats should also be wet while the water is draining down.

[Vincent Hill]

Originally Posted by rs6er

Please let me know what the sealer is called. I still can't leave my car out in the rain without a tarp (I did replace the front seal.)

I would be 3 happy (A step above 2 happy) to! As soon as I get home I will post it! I found it at an AutoZone and it is either made by Loctite or one of the Very well known Manufactures! I had tried everything and now it is this or nothing!

[Rusty Heap]

For my leaking rear window, I took it to an auto glass place and they sealed up mine very cleanly with true window sealant/caulking even under the rear window rubber gasket/grommet for cheap, maybe $40? Zero leaks afterwards. Run a garden hose on the rear window and look inside for leaks/drips.

Carefull if you're going to put in a new rubber seal, the rear window defrost wires run under it and it's a bear to not damage them while replacing.

Just a heads up.

[Vincent Hill]

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

For my leaking rear window, I took it to an auto glass place and they sealed up mine very cleanly with true window sealant/caulking even under the rear window rubber gasket/grommet for cheap, maybe $40? Zero leaks afterwards. Run a garden hose on the rear window and look inside for leaks/drips.

Carefull if you're going to put in a new rubber seal, the rear window defrost wires run under it and it's a bear to not damage them while replacing.

Just a heads up.

AMEN to the Wires for the Defrost (Which I think mine already have a problem that I need to check into)

On my Van, I went to a shop that did windshields and they Resealed the windshield "Inside and Outside" UNDER the rubber lips and for a while this worked! Then the water reappeared and then I tried one glue and no luck. I was at an AutoZone one day and happened to see this and tried it and now NO Leaks for over a year! I DID need what the Shop did but the whidshield Glue worked when the repair failed. It is made to crawl into open spaces and remain plyable. Over a year later and no leaks is is for sure going to get a try on this one!

The only thing I am upset about is there was no Internet when I was having the problems with the 1976 and i "NEVER EVER" thought about the rear window! I am really Pissed about that!

[Rusty Heap]

Rear defrost wires, the ground wire spade lug connection is about 3-4" up from the bottom each side L & R, the power lead is also on each side L&R about 14-16"" up from the bottom.

Digging under the grommet from the inside exposes the wires, and the spade lugs are small, like 1/8" wide.

hope this helps someone.

[Vincent Hill]

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

Rear defrost wires, the ground wire spade lug connection is about 3-4" up from the bottom each side L & R, the power lead is also on each side L&R about 14-16"" up from the bottom.

Digging under the grommet from the inside exposes the wires, and the spade lugs are small, like 1/8" wide.

hope this helps someone.

It sure helped "ME"!!

[john walker's workshop]

the sunroof drains may be clear but that doesn't mean you're done with potential sunroof related leaks yet. unzip the headliner, remove the cardboard covers over the sunroof motor and tubing (if they're still in there). look at where the cable guide tubes curve into the back of the sunroof pocket on each side. there's a small flange/bolt/sealing gasket there. right next to that is the plastic pin coming through from the guide rail. both of these areas can leak quite nicely. pour water down the drain troughs on each side of the sunroof rails and watch that area with a flashlight. they drip onto the headliner and the water runs down all the way to the package shelf, down into the rear seat bottoms and to the rear floor. get the package shelf upholstery panel and the rubber/fibre pad out of there so you can see it.

[Rusty Heap]

John, as usual, you are the masta, we bow down before your greatness........serious. You rock dood.

I'll add a second note (AND PIC) to my rear window defogger wiring, as I forgot that on the 911SC's anyways, its a dual grid circuit, one ground, and TWO hot leads each side, I believe the ground is the bottom circuit / spade lug.

pictures says it all. Complete with tape measure.

[Vincent Hill]

You Guys are giving me Hours of entertainment to enjoy myself! I knew NOTHING about this Sun Roof and my 1976 did not have a sun roof so I am "HOPING" the rear window is the problem.

Mister John Walker, I like the term "Un-Zip"!! the liner! Would you like to "SPLAIN" they a little more for me ??

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Vincent A Hill

You Guys are giving me Hours of entertainment to enjoy myself! I knew NOTHING about this Sun Roof and my 1976 did not have a sun roof so I am "HOPING" the rear window is the problem.

Mister John Walker, I like the term "Un-Zip"!! the liner! Would you like to "SPLAIN" they a little more for me ??

What John means is there should be a zipper in the headliner over the rear windshield that gives access to the motor and other parts of the sunroof. It is quite obvious, and if you don't have one on your car then either you don't have a factory sunroof (unlikely), or someone replaced the proper headliner with one for a non sunroof coupe.

[Vincent Hill]

I never looked HARD at the roof liner but I am going to! Thank You!

The Windshield Sealer is Permatex "Flowable" Windshield & Glass Sealer Item # 81730. It allows you to glue everything, clean up (I use brake cleaner) and you have an Hour to get this done and 24 hours to cure! I am glad I finally have something to "Contruibute" to a place I am down on information but not on putting Ideas into action! I hope to have the gear Shift extension for the Weltmeister next week and will post this then.

[john walker's workshop]

go easy on that zipper so the liner doesn't rip. some of them are pretty hard to move after 30 years. some penetrating oil helps. use a Q tip or some sort of swab to work it in.

[Vincent Hill]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

go easy on that zipper so the liner doesn't rip. some of them are pretty hard to move after 30 years. some penetrating oil helps. use a Q tip or some sort of swab to work it in.

Bigger than life, the Zipper Tang was even hanging down I guess you see with your Mind and not your eyes!! Never even saw it before I looked at it!

I think I "Will" lube it and open it for Grins.

I did the rear window by using a heat Gun around the glass and molding then with the smallest possible tip on the tube went around the Rear Shield then reheated. I then wiped the excess away. Sunday I will put a very small line around the edge and leave it for good to set.

I did see water droplets at the bottom Corners about 2 to 3 inches in Diameter. I wiped them dry and the next day only on the passenger side. My feeling is that the Rear Window is a better source of this problem than any thing I have come up with and thank you guys for the direction Pointing!!

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by rs6er

Please let me know what the sealer is called....

Has anyone answered?

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

the sunroof drains may be clear but that doesn't mean you're done with potential sunroof related leaks yet. unzip the headliner, remove the cardboard covers over the sunroof motor and tubing (if they're still in there). look at where the cable guide tubes curve into the back of the sunroof pocket on each side. there's a small flange/bolt/sealing gasket there. right next to that is the plastic pin coming through from the guide rail. both of these areas can leak quite nicely. pour water down the drain troughs on each side of the sunroof rails and watch that area with a flashlight. they drip onto the headliner and the water runs down all the way to the package shelf, down into the rear seat bottoms and to the rear floor. get the package shelf upholstery panel and the rubber/fibre pad out of there so you can see it.

A while back I had the dreaded wet rear floor and seat problem! John Walker set me straight, with the info as above. It was leaking at the sunroof guide pins and the cable guide tubes. I had to remove the sunroof guide rails to do a proper fix (its not that hard). Sealed it all up with black silicone. see my thread for pic.

Eureka!!! Found rear seat water leak Sunroof related!

[Vincent Hill]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Has anyone answered?

I never looked HARD at the roof liner but I am going to! Thank You!

The Windshield Sealer is Permatex "Flowable" Windshield & Glass Sealer Item # 81730. It allows you to glue everything, clean up (I use brake cleaner) and you have an Hour to get this done and 24 hours to cure! I am glad I finally have something to "Contruibute" to a place I am down on information but not on putting Ideas into action! I hope to have the gear Shift extension for the Weltmeister next week and will post this then.

2 Post Above yours!