No AC, Can't Take It Anymore!!!

[EricScott]

Ok, I've spent mounds of cash recharging my old AC system. I have a leak that can't be found, but I 'know' where the leak is.

My '82sc has the original hozes and I know these were gas permeable. The heat exchangers a good so no heat invades from there.

My question is, how difficult and how expensive is it to do a COMPLETE Air Conditioner refurb? I'm talking all hozes, compressor and associated parts. Can I do it myself? What parts can I keep and which to discard? Would this be a job for a massochist? What about the refrigerant, if there is any left in the system?

So I know the factory ACs aren't too good but I've heard of 'upgrade systems' that work well. Does anyone have any experience with these?

I want my triple black SC to be cold enough to HANG MEAT. I'm talking ice cube cold. Frostbite. Antarctic.

Please help. I'm melting.

Thanks!

[krichard]

I just did a half ass r134 conversion that blows cool and it cost ~1500.00. I did not have them replace the hoses. The cost of having someone do the hoses is gonna be way up there on acount of the labor. I will do that this winter. I am going to add the kuehl wheel well condensor to bring the vent temp down even further. I would expect that an AC system that blows ice cold is gonna run you close to 3k all said and done if you do some of the work. It can go way up if you have a shop do it all.

[Panzer909]

I believe it was Excellence that just had a three-part article series on an aftermarket AC kit for '80s 911s. The guy lived in Florida, and had the same frustration as yourself. The kit was called "Keuhl air" or something like that. Go to your local Barnes & Noble; I believe its in the current issue.

But, the price of such a kit was about $2000+, and they did their own (20+ hour) labor to install the darned thing. All depends on what is worth it for you - factory 911 AC SUCKS.

[masraum]

If you want a meat locker then you are probably going to need, at least, an underbody condensor. If you want to get it working reasonably well then you can just replace the stock parts.

[ruf-porsche]

Actually my factory a/c blow nice and cold on 95 degrees days. It hasn't been a very hot summer in She car go but during the few time that the temp and humidity top close to 95 my vent temp was about 38, not cold enopugh to hang meat, but cold enough to be driving and enjoying the P car.

Factory stock system with R12 refrigerant.

[stlrj]

Before you go and spend a ton of money on this, I would see if I could first find the leaks and then go from there. The easiest most cost effective way I have found was to charge my AC with Propane which is odorized, so any leak will be easy to detect with your nose. A bottle of Propane only costs $2.99 for 16 oz at the hardware or drug store and a couple of bucks for a 1/4 " flare adapter and you're set.

I'm running my 86 Carrera on 16 oz of Propane right now and my AC is ice cold but later I may go back to R12 now that I took care of all my hose leaks and I'm certain my system works.

Cheers,

Joe

[nostatic]

Take the $3-4K you will spend upgrading the AC and buy a beater Japanese econobox for hot days. Unless you do some serious mods and additions, you'll get merely passable AC (never meat locker). You need more/bigger vents (especially in a black car) to exchange the air.

[turbo6bar]

I drive a '78SC previously owned by Pelican member 'Seadweller.' He performed an extensive A/C refurbish job, and I can tell you the A/C is very cold (35-40 degree vent temps). It can keep up on very hot days with high humidity. Memphis in August provides temps in the 90s with horrid humidity, but the vents continue to pour out the cold, dry air.

Here are some threads detailing the mods. I can post pictures of his work, if anyone's interested.

A/C Restoration [Long]

A/C Restoration

Also, search under member name 'Seadweller' for other interesting posts. Michael said he spent around $1500, and he did some of the work himself.

I know many guys say to ditch the components, but I really enjoy having a 911 that can literally be driven year-round. The only conditions I would not tackle are heavy snow/ice and rain (but mainly because I like to keep my baby clean).

Jürgen

[Don Wohlfarth]

Eric, I have a 82SC. 2 years ago I bought a rotary compressor, all hoses, TXV, and filter drier, from Griffiths for 1350-1400.
I've been in residental a/c work for 30+ years but do very, very, little work on auto a/c but am comfortable working on them.
The job is doable by a DIYer but it is a PITA. It took me about 24 hours labor from start to finish. I took out the evap coil and cleaned it while everything was apart. My car has the front condenser and a bulkhead vent. I recharged the system with
R-12.
I've owned the car for 18 years and it's the first time the a/c has worked properly. The system is more than acceptable in anything other than stop and go traffic after 20-30 minutes. If the car is moving you are fine. The rotary compressor is a huge plus over the recip in that you are barely aware it has kicked in, and no more vibration.
I can get the cabin right at 70 on a 95+ day.

[89911]

The general consensus is you need to spend $$$ on the crappy system just to get it to work adequately. While changing my brake bias valve, I did some cleaning and remove the remaining remnants of my AC system. Good Riddance.

[jess p]

You might try some a/c dye. You would know where the
leak is and save some money.

[GoodFinder]

Thanks for the link. I just bought an '87 930 and upgrading the air conditioning is definitely one of the areas I'd like to explore doing.

GoodFinder

Originally posted by turbo6bar
I drive a '78SC previously owned by Pelican member 'Seadweller.' He performed an extensive A/C refurbish job, and I can tell you the A/C is very cold (35-40 degree vent temps). It can keep up on very hot days with high humidity. Memphis in August provides temps in the 90s with horrid humidity, but the vents continue to pour out the cold, dry air.

Here are some threads detailing the mods. I can post pictures of his work, if anyone's interested.

A/C Restoration [Long]

A/C Restoration

Also, search under member name 'Seadweller' for other interesting posts. Michael said he spent around $1500, and he did some of the work himself.

I know many guys say to ditch the components, but I really enjoy having a 911 that can literally be driven year-round. The only conditions I would not tackle are heavy snow/ice and rain (but mainly because I like to keep my baby clean).

Jürgen

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by turbo6bar

I know many guys say to ditch the components, but I really enjoy having a 911 that can literally be driven year-round. The only conditions I would not tackle are heavy snow/ice and rain (but mainly because I like to keep my baby clean).

Jürgen

That's the one of the reason why I sold my 74 coupe and brought an 82 Targa with A/C.

As I said in a previous post on a/c, if I wanted to dry a HOT car I would take one of the Lotus, but I prefer driving a COOL Porsche in the summer.

[350HP930]

My old R12 system in the porsche still blows out enough cold enough air to stay cool here in central florida but it needs charging each year. The only current A/C mods is a Kuehl Vent that helps focus the finite amount of cool that the system can supply squarly on the driver.

Eventually I am going to get around to replacing the lines and putting in an additional condenser where the washer bottle currently lives but that can wait till the engine and suspension rebuilds are complete.

[EricScott]

Thanks for all the info everyone! I think I'll endure until the fall,do the work when it's cool in the garage and next summer will be no sweat.

[EricScott]

Propane? Please forgive my ignorance. I know there are propane camping fridges, etc. but how safe is this in a car that may have a leak? I hate the AC system but don't yet want to blow 'er up!! LOL!!!

You're talking a standard, blow torch type, propane bottle right? Can an AC charge kit be modded so that I can I just hook the 1/4" adapter to it. I'm a bit clueless when it comes to AC systems. I understand the parts and all but not the refrigerant needs/specs. Do you put the whole bottle of propane in the system? What about pressures?

Thanks!
Eric

[targa80]

The propane thread made me chuckle as I read it. My thoughts were A/C leak in the engine compartment and old distributor wires arching up a storm. Or should I say thunderstorm. May I suggest that this approach to troubleshooting the A/C system might just have a flaw in it. I think the ultaviolet light sensitive dye would be a safer (maybe not so cheaper way to go).

[jeff m]

I changed the hoses on my car (along with some other bits) a few years back. I don't remember it being that difficult or very expensive.

With regard to leak detection, $5.00 at your local auto parts store, just make sure the one you get is compatable with whatever you are using as a refrigerant. If your system is already empty open a hose pour it in then get a half charge, run the A/C look for the leak with a black light.
The guy who sticks in the refrigerant will have one.

Jeff

[Jim Smolka]

Sometimes what is needed is a 20+ year maintenance on the AC system. Obviously, the leak will need to be fixed (check if there is an oil residue on then inside of the rear lid). The expansion valve as well as the rcvr drier could need attention. The compressor needs to be inspected. Also, there is an AC flush and vacuum that removes a lot of the junk inside of the system. After a proper maintenance, I have seen systems put out sub 50 degree F cold air from the vents

[jdowty3]

I replaced my all my hoses last spring for about $200, most of which was the cost of new fittings. I could have cut off the old ones and had them recrimped to the new hoses but decided the cost to time savings wasn't worth it. Removing the old hose and installing the new is dirty and time consuming but not hard. Replace the drier/receiver ($100), clean and straighten the condensors ( add an underbelly condensor for $400 or replace the front and rear with a 993 fender unit $250 - $350 ), clean the evaporator and install a new expansion valve ($25). If you still have an OEM compressor, replace it with a wobble-plate Sanden or a rotary Sieko-Sieki.