Can you tell me if I'm missing something.
 

Third attempt at passing smog and no go. My CO is around 2.5 (max is 1) and hydrocarbons are around 625 (max is 200).

PO has removed the smog/air pump but it seems everything else is there, but I'm not sure.

Here's a couple of not so good photos in hopes you guys could tell me if I'm missing something. A fellow pelican has a pump but would rather not have him ship everything just the pump if I don't have to.

Could we make a checklist?

The metal piping underneath the engine seems to be there.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265149072.jpg

Left side of engine bay.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265149123.jpg

FYI
New injectors, plugs, wires, cap, a bunch of Techron through the tank, the timing, air/fuel has been adjusted. Wondering if a low rpm bucking is related to unburnt fuel.

Could my 30 year old cat not be doing it's job? Another pelican has a later 60k mile 3.2 Carrera cat for a decent price, thinking about putting that on. Hoping that and a pump if I have to will get it passed.

Also is the pump easy to put back on? According to 101 projects I'm about a 2-3 little wrench guy level.
Thanks.

How did it fail? CO? What?

If you have the numbers, that would help.

Is the Techron out of the system?

Here you would fail the visual because of no pump.

Techron out. See my first post for numbers. Also, just changed the oil and cleaned K&N air filter.

Yeah, you're missing the smog pump.

Your car has a 2 way cat, not the 3 way cat of the 80 and up 911s. With the 2 way cat, you need the smog pump to pass smog.

When I had my SC, I ran it on a gas analyzer with and without the pump (pump disconnected) to see the difference. It easily passed with the pump, but would NOT pass without it, not even close.

looking at your pictures, it looks like only the pump was removed, so if you have the pump and the brackets it hopefully will be a straight bolt up.

if you do that, remember there is a vacuum line that runs to the smog pump from somewhere on/near the throttle body. You must have that vacuum line in place for the system to work.

Complete smog pump plus bracket......
 

Oregonmom,

I haven't heard anything from you since your last email. I have a complete set you can have (FREE). Just take care of the shipping costs via FedEx and I'll have them out ASAP. Make-up your mind before someone grabs them away.

Tony

McLovin that's good to know that it wouldn't pass without the pump.
Boyt911, you are my next contact. It seems that I won't need the plumbing but I will need the pump and brackets.
Let me know the cost. Gonna pm you with address, thanks for sticking with me.

How long do you have to pass smog inspections? Ours stops at 25 years, so I get to do a little happy dance next year.

I wish. Tree huggers up here in Portland Metro area make it 35 years!
But that's the thing, I normally run cat bypass and no pump. I don't want to have to spend money on this considering I need to pass 2 tests in 4 years than I'm exempt.

Pick your choice..........
 

Ryan,

I went out to my tool shed and pulled out the crate containing the SC air pumps. The picture below shows the different accessories that come with the air pump unit. Do you need all these parts with the pump? If I have to install one on my car today, I'll select the dirty looking air pump on the right (smoother rotation of the pulley). They were good working pumps when I tested them on my car several years ago as spare units. So which one do you want? The one on the left or the right.

BTW, last time I tried to help someone in the forum, I got crucified. So I'm not giving any warranty on these free stuff. All I could say is these were my spare units for my SC when I was running with air pump in the car. These were purchased in the mid 90's before the conception of Hershey Swap Meet.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265161720.jpg

I think I also have a new belt somewhere. If I locate it, I'll throw that in the box too.

Tony

Ryan,


Bad news, there is no "rolling exemption". All car '75 and newer must be tested. Period.

be happy yours stops at 35, just a bit south of you they put a cap on the smog, 1974 and newer cars and trucks still need to pass smog here .... dont they realize co2 is good for trees ?????????

Your car is running to rich. Adjust your CO through the small hole with a 3 mm allen

Can I safely lean it out enough, to pass though. I've never adjusted this before.

Tony, you seem like heck of a guy and I appreciate what you're offering. I will not hold you liable for free parts. I guess I will take the pump you believe is in best working condition. I don't seem to have the bracket but I'm not sure about the other pieces. I guess I'll take the extra parts just in case. Yeah, belt I wonder if Pelican sells them in case you don't have one.
Thanks again, I'm hoping this will pass me. How difficult is this to put back on?

You have plenty of room to lean it out. You are running way to rich actually. You are losing power running that way. I dont know how many times you are allowed to fail your test, but i would turn the screw a little at a time until she goes through

Your basic problem you have with the CO and HC is that you are running rich. Way to rich. All the airpumps in the world, or brand new cats wont solve your problem at all. The air pump is to add air to an engine that was just started and cold, to help it burn cleaner. When the car is all warmed up, air pump doesnt do much of anything. A cat helps convert the burnt fuel into different less toxic compounds. The problem is that if you run to rich, a new cat wont be able to work correctly. Adjust your CO adjustment on your fuel distributor. Trust me

Missing parts to complete........
 

Ryan,

There are two (2) important components of the SC smog pump unit not shown in the picture. The pump belt and the rubber hose (90° elbow) that connects the two small gizmos in the center of the pic. I'll re-assemble the parts together and post the picture to guide you during installation.

Or find someone local who has a car with smog pump. I quess if you post and ask, guys around your area will be giving you plenty of help. Let's get this car ready for spring!!!!

Tony

Ryan,

This chart shows you how your mixture affect CO, HC and NOx. Richer is lower Lamdbdas.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/EMISSION.gif

As you may note if your CO as you lean you car out to get a better HC, Your CO may actually go up.

You are running to rich. Look at a clearer charthttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265170114.jpg

If it were that simple than why couldn't the local shop fix that when they had it? Could there be a running problem that is not properly burning the fuel?

I'm in the automotive repair world. Many many many shops are just not very good. I take pride in my work, and I am a car nut as well. Alot of techs are just not that way. I'm willing to bet most "shops" dont even know that your car has a "CO adjustment", where it is, or even how to adjust it. The air pump might help a tiny bit, but not enough to pass. Print out the adjustment instructions, and bring it with you to a shop with a gas analyzer. They should be able to get it within passing specs for you

It "could" be a running problem, but your HC tells me your rich. A dead miss would be much higher, like 2000 ppm. 600 is a running rich issue which will affect your CO. I;m willing to bet you NOx is quite low. You didnt post that number, but would assume they test that gas as well. You also never mentioned that the car wasnt running well, or shaking or any drivablity problems, so I assume she is running fine, but you cant get the numbers in an acceptable range

The air pump should definitely help. I also agree with leaning your mixture. Also, for whatever reason, these cars often need a spirited drive for at least 20 minutes before testing.

Most people, unless they live in CA remove the airpump. As much as I have to admit it serves a purpose, installing it will not magically get him through inspection. The only thing that will is leaning it out. I'm curious to see the NOx readings.

I appreciate everyones input. Hi Harry! Thanks 1st.

Here's what was going on with the two shops I was going to. One guy who went through fuel system and replace injectors didn't have gas analyzer.
The other shop diagnosed a stumble in high rpms (injectors solved it) as a transmission/clutch issue and wanted to drop the engine and tranny. That completely stumped me.
Went back to that shop after new injectors to get it tuned/adjusted with analyzer and couldn't get it low enough. Proposed new cat, plug wires because they weren't sheilded, oil change with a bill over $800!

This shop supposedly has a great rep but part of me wonders what they were trying to do?

Ok, so you have a 3.0, a cat, and no o2 sensor. You are running cis though, correct.

Also, please post your NOx readings. I agree that a cat helps, but there are plenty of guys who's cars didnt have cats that run cleaner than that. The problem may stem a little deeper into the CIS system, but I believe you have an adjustment for how rich or lean your car runs. I am confident that leaning it a little would solve it all. Your NOx readings will help determine that, but not always. Running too rich could cause carbon build up, and make your NOx high anyway. The shop with a gas analyzer already wanted to sell you work you didn't need, whether it was deliberate, or unintentional, but I still wonder if they know what to look for. If you have a VW shop, I would swing by, and just ask if they could lean out your mixture a little. Many old german cars had this setup. If you go to a "good" shop that knows nothing about CIS, They may have also looked for the engine in the front ;)

That's all correct and according to the sheet, I don't see any NOx numbers.
Actual numbers.
HC 640
CO 2.0774
CO2 11.6

With seeing the CO2 numbers, it gives me a better idea. If they included O2 and NOx, it would be help as well. Basically with these numbers, you could be either a little rich or lean Its very hard to tell, but with an adjustment of the "CO adjustment", I would think it wouldn't be difficult to get it in the sweet spot. I got some info off the internet to help you understand what the gases tell me, and maybe will help you fix it

High Carbon Monoxide (CO) readings usually indicate a fuel mixture richer than ideal (rich mixture - air fuel ratio below 14.7). In general CO is an indicator of combustion efficiency. The amount of CO in a vehicle’s exhaust is directly related to its air-fuel ratio. High CO levels result from inadequate O2 supply needed for complete combustion. This is caused by a too rich mixture - too much fuel or not enough air (AFR readings below the optimal 14.7

High hydrocarbon (HC) readings usually indicate excessive unburned fuel caused by a lack of ignition or by incomplete combustion. Concentrations are measured in parts per million (PPM). Common causes include a faulty ignition system, vacuum leaks, and fuel mixture problems. Circumstances that can lead to a high HC emissions are:

* Incomplete combustion due to fouled spark plugs.

* Improper timing or dwell

* Damaged ignition wires

* Poor compression

* Vacuum leak

BTW, I believe they mean high HC in the 2-3000 area. I believe that 600 ppm is more of an indication that there is to much fuel, not enough O2, and thus leaving some unburned fuel

Low carbon dioxide (CO2) readings indicate a fuel mixture either too rich or too lean, exhaust system leaks, or sample dilution


With High CO, Low CO2, and moderately high HC, I believe you are running rich. Hope someone near you, or even you can get you with a good sticker soon. If I were you, I would aquire the proper adjustment tool, and try to adjust yourself. Its very easy. Very small turns is all it takes. It doesnt take much for the cis to get a little out of whack, so I would start there before buying cas etc. Good luck, and let me know

Ryan,

Mike knows how to do this. If you already paid for the service once, I would press him a bit.

Just for reference, the spec for CO on a US '79 is 1.5-3.5%, with the air pump disconnected.

JR

Good to know javadog, the CO gotta be 1 and under. So even if the mix is rich, which I'm sure it is, it seems the pump is probably going to help.

+1 on the spirited drive. My last two smog tests were done without the airpump "vanes" in the pump (had to keep the pump and belt in place for completeness). After no joy finding a pump that didn't sound like a cat in a fan belt, my mech adjusted the mixture and insructed me to make sure the care was fully warmed up. passed with flying colors.

I drove around in 1-2 gears lower than i normally would. it was hot. I don't know what else, would be the problem unless it goes deeper. It runs good, especially now, with new injectors and fuel system clean through. The only running problem is that it does buck some at light to no thottle and I'm not sure that is related or what is causing it. Could that be a symptom of a rich mix?

bucking is an indication of a lean mixture, IIRC.

"Spirited" drive...just drive it normally, but push it a bit (watch for cops!)...no need to run in lower gears.

smog failure
 

Oregonmon:

my1st911 is right on the money. Exactly! High CO is an indicator of too much fuel or too little air. The O2 reading will help point out if you're rich or lean. If your HCs are high also, you're way too rich. Fix the CO problem first. Often, the HCs will come into line. Your mixture screw should get the air/fuel mixture in range and below 1% for CO. If your HCs are still high, you need a tuneup or your compression is down. These are the simple things to start with.
Good Luck,

you can lean it out but the HC will stay up there or get worse. fix the wasted fuel issue first. it can be anything that causes incomplete combustion. remember, CO is a byproduct of combustion, so what shows as rich now would be even richer if it all was burned. check the brake booster vacuum hose down by the trans and torsion tube for cracks, OHM the plug connectors, check for air leaks, leakdown and compression, etc.

Yeah John, I hate to say it, but wondering if there is a low lying issue that neither shop has found. Which is very frustrating.