eBay: "Top Secret" Porsche Motor

[kstar]

Another eBay listing that made my cut!

From the auction:

"This motor was build by Porsche to push over 400 horsepower.* It was designed as a top secret project by Porsche to see how much horsepower can be extracted by their latest equipment.**

After Porsche tested this motor, and found out how much power they can get from this motor.* For some odd reason it was ordered to be destroyed.** One of the Porsche engineers secretly snuck it out."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=598614138&r=0&t=0

Judging from the "transmission" attached and the location of the turbo under the motor, I would say it looks like one of the Porsche/Mooney motors for an aircraft!

Despite the Seller's claim as I have posted above, at least he mentions he knows nothing about this "top secret" motor!

Best to all and Happy Holidays!

Kurt

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

This guy knows very little

my guess is that it is a PFM 3300 Flight engine

They had around 250 HP
Wortless without paperwork and the best the engine is documentet untill the last screw so if it is stolen from porsche....

Those engines are still used in several blimps worldwide.

Grüsse

[pwm74]

There was fuji blimp in excellence with that motor

[JDaniel]

Looks pretty. BTW what's up with the twin plug setup? The guy could at least give the motor #'s ....

[wckrause]

Aviation motors always have twin ignition systems. It's for reliability rather than performance. During pre-flight, you do checks to verify that both systems are in operation.

It is a nice looking motor.

[Jim T]

I wonder if it could be adapted to work in a car? Would be kinda cool. The Aero engines have gear driven cams, instead of chain driven, from what I've read. The article said the gears are for reliability, but could not be used in a car because the system is too noisy (noise on the aero engine is not a concern because the noise for the prop blade drowns everything out).

The gears might make a kind of cool sound, though, like a supercharger.

[avi8torny]

Mr. Kunz was correct...the motor was for a Porsche powered Mooney airplane. The gearbox on the front lowers the output RPM (in the gearbox) for a propeller. Props typically in aicraft that size operate at less than 2800 RPM, well below the RPM a Porsche engine likes. This keeps the propeller tips from exceeding the speed of sound. This project died a quick death.


tdowling

[Joeaksa]

Jim,

It would be lots and lots of work. The airplane motors are designed to run at a constant RPM, not like a car motor that goes up and down.

This guy has an interesting case on his hands. Any airplane motor without the logbooks is almost worthless, as a certified mechanic MUST take it apart and confirm the status on the parts inside, then check everything for cracks and such, then re-assy it after putting their approval on the logs.

All this costs lots of time and money and is easily $5-10k on a normal motor. With this being a PFM motor, there are not too many A&P Mechanics who are experienced on this type so it gets even more difficult. That said, if someone has a PFM motor on their airplane and wants a spare, it might be a good deal.

Unless they find the logs and records, it could go on an experimental airplane as is, but thats about it.

JA

PS I emailed the seller privately and told him what he is selling. Lets see if he fesses up. Its not "top secret" and will make 400 hp for about a second before it self destructs in a dive.

[JuiceMan]

"From there the motor ended up in the engineers hands for several years. Then the engineer got in a fatal car accident and it was sold in a yard sale. I bought it from the yard sale, because it looked so unreal to me."

Wow what kind of yard sales have Porsche Aircraft engines!?!?!

[Kevin Reilly]

Looks like he ended the auction.

[Joeaksa]

Something is fishy here. I emailed him and told him what he was trying to sell.

He emails me back and now asks me how much the motor is worth WITH the records and logs that he said that he did not have before... Then told me that he was closing the auction down so that he could relist it as an airplane motor.

I would not touch this one with a ten foot pole.. will be fun to see what happens on this one.

JA

[Jim T]

Originally posted by 69-912
"From there the motor ended up in the engineers hands for several years. Then the engineer got in a fatal car accident and it was sold in a yard sale. I bought it from the yard sale, because it looked so unreal to me."

Wow what kind of yard sales have Porsche Aircraft engines!?!?!

"Let's see, I'll give ya $7.50 for this folding tv tray, velvet Jesus poster, orange Naugahyde jacket, and . . . oh yeah . . . that PFM 3300 Flight engine sitting over there . . ."

[rcilurso]

Gear drives are noisy. But, it's the kind of noise a gearhead loves. Like, race trans', superchargers, turbo whine...

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Blimp engines look a other way so this was a Piper engine on a display. Just missing the carrier for the fusselage mounting.



http://www.heckschleuder.de/Luftschiff/body_luftschiff.html

Grüsse

[URY914]

The date on the pictures is '87 2 20. (Feb. 20 1987) I guess he had to let it cool off for a few years after the "top secret" yard sale. I heard Jimmy Hoffa was at the same yard sale looking for some Fuchs.

[prattrc]

...not to mention he's blatantly advertizing the engine as stolen.

Doesn't Ebay have rules about such things?

[Doug Zielke]

That's a very nice looking piece of machinery. How can I fit it into the SC? ?

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

PFM was killed by the "strong" position from the other manufactorers in the marked. Strange thing is whenever Porsche tried to comete in the US they changed the rules, thats the CanAm effect

For most the engine was to complicatet and a missconstruction anyhow.

On the other side the engine neeeded a newer constructet airplane to play out the cards ( aces ) lighter, better milage, smother runing ( less vibes and less noise ) using cheap pump gas and cheaper parts on maintance plus runing a lower noise muffler or catlyc converter. The trany and the prop where joinet together in a one lever system witch should help avoiding missadjustments ( making flying easier ) and many other small idears where grown out on them. Those engines had more power for nearly the same money and curb wight. The pipers didn´thad a areodynamic fuselage cover to play out the higher cruise speed. A german company was developing a suiting plane and get in trouble when Porsche killed the PFM project. Some from them where equiped with Corvairs or new Wankels and the next generation got some reinforcments to run american iron in the nose. Schultz and Bott would had the "balls" to run the project but the new generation ( Well Branitzki was a old whimp and penny counter ) feared to fight and quit most projects including PFM and Porsche 989.....

Mooney ( or Piper ? ) developed a longer fusselage on the money from Porsche and to lever better contracts with the other engine manufactorers.

There was also a private Chessna Bi engine runing in MUC achiving aprovals and showing the benefits but Chessna didn´t showed any interesst.

One single engine Mooney made a world trip crossing the oceans with two persons but no lugage. Is that the "spirit" of st loius ?

As far I know only one airplane with a PFM had a accident ( A Robin with a PFM 3200 crased in austria ) and those engines never had any problems or showed wear on TOB rebuild.

Porsche does not build any new parts and the engines are maintained with NOS or get rebuild parts. AFIK the company servicing Porsche engines is in the US ( Porsche themselfstoped it in the same time when the last 993 was droped from the line ) witch boastet the servicing prices abouve US engine level.

Grüsse

On his other auction he tries to sale a 930 airfilterhosing and states newprice around 500$

Bought them several years ago for 100$, didn´t realize that inflation is that fast in the US.

Edit:

OK correction the offered unit is a 3,2 airfilterhousing witch also has a 930 ordernumber and costs actually around 180 $ in germany ( complete including filterelement.

The 3,3 Turbo 930 aircleaner ( steel ) costs around 350$

[kstar]

I suppose if one could get a 911 high enough off the ground for prop clearance, the turbo location would not be a problem.

Then, one could mount composite wings to the rear fenders and composite canard wings to the front fenders - the prop would extend beyond the rear bumper.

Cooling air could be via a ram cowl under the vehicle/aircraft to the front of the motor's cooling fan.

I would think that various pieces like the bonnet would be have to be lightweight . . . and one would have to make some 'modest' modifications to the steering column.

A true 'flying' 911 would certainly be a novel project. It would certainly get some attention at your local airfield.

Best,

Kurt

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by Roland Kunz
.....
One single engine Mooney made a world trip crossing the oceans with two persons but no lugage......

Here's a couple of Porsche Factory Poster images celebrating the event...