Street-driven early 911 suspension confusion...advice wanted

deathpunk dan · 03-23-2010, 10:32 AM

I apologize for posting a topic that has been brought up so many times.
Spring is here and I want to refresh my car's suspension on somewhat of a budget.

The car is a 71 T that is street driven only. No sway bars; stock T suspension. I want to keep decent ride quality due to our roads not being terribly great.

I have purchased bilstein HDs and already installed oem 930 tie rods last summer. Planning on ordering Lemforder ball joints and new front wheel bearings (while I'm in there...)

I wish I could just order the Elephant Racing Stage 1 complete package, but it's not an option right now.

So, do I go with Neatrix or ERP A arm bushings?
What about torsion bars? Do I leave them alone? Bushings?
rear trailing arm bushings?
spring plate bushings?
worth it to replace rear spring plates with later adjustable ones?

I'm going to have the car lowered, aligned, and corner balanced. Will the std bump steer kit suffice?

I don't want to mickey mouse anything but want to get the most bang for the buck with this.

What about sway bars? I can get get stock sway bars from a parts car. Yes or no?

Credit card is ready and I'm itching to get moving on this; any advice/experience is greatly appreciated.

Dan

Scott at Pelican Parts · Scott at Pelican Parts's Garage

Dan,
On my 1971 targa, I have Bilstein HD shocks and used Carrera sway bars and used 911SC torsion bars. The ride is comfortable and the handling is good too (for a street car).

jpnovak · 03-23-2010, 10:56 AM

Front:
Bilstein shocks
stock TBs
Elephant POlybronze bushings
15mm through body sway bar

Rear:
Bilstein Sport shocks
SC 24mm TBs
15mm early style sway bar
Elephant polybronze on late-style factory adjustable spring plates.

align, cornerbalance and then drive the wheels off it. This should give you a comfortable street ride with lots of suppleness in the suspension to absorb bumps. You will have better transitional control due to the sway bars and roll control. Don't set the car too low. I like to be able to lay a flat hand on top of the tire below the fender lips. No bump steer needed although the rack spacers will help a little.

The only thing that will be expensive will be the PB bushings. The rest of the parts will be easily found on the used market. You want the early sway bars, not the later style. The later style will not fit. You can substitute the plastic (urethane, polygraphite, etc) if you take the time to fit them correctly. This will cost <$100 but you should use a lathe to properly size them.

Check your rear trailing arms to see if the ball stud has been welded in place. It will be inboard of the spring plate on the front side. If you do not have this you can either weld it in place or use an aftermarket sway bar. You also need to check to see if you have rear sway bar mounts welded to the body. These will be slighly behind the torsion tube on the inboard side of the longitudinal. The early style consoles are about $30 each side. Then they need to be welded in. Make sure the sheet metal is in good shape before welding in place.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-23-2010, 11:07 AM

Dan, what do you have for tires?

JerryL · 03-23-2010, 11:23 AM

Hey Dan, hope all is well.
For bang for the $$ (I also have a 71 Targa doing a bit different but)
As above, do the ERP A Arm bushings they will last thru several changes as you progress.
Swap T.bars for stock SC a bit bigger (F&R), also with knowing you are going to be adjusting and corner balance, do the SC adjustable spring plates lots of that SC stuff out ther and at a great value!!
I would go bigger than the mentioned 15 mm sways if you can find them used a few 19's out there i would do same size F&R.
Note Front is straight bolt in, rear is a bit more a PITA as you are going to have to move your fuel pump it is in the way (left side). mount it to the front cross member as most (another SC part the aluminum cross member todays $$ about $100)

Have fun, drop me a note if you have anything specific.

Regards

berettafan · 03-23-2010, 11:36 AM

21/26 tbars (used, solid)
Neatrix rear bushings on SC spring plates (will make corner balance easier)
Elephant rubber bushings on front control arms
No bigger than stock (early car stock) sways, if any

zero maintenance.

deathpunk dan · 03-23-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Dan, what do you have for tires?

BFG G Sports 205/60/15.

Thank you all for the very helpful feedback. Will begin this weekend.

Dan

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

Elph. rubber bushing might be a good alternative, considering your streets

the poly bronze will "pick out" bumps IMO - not bad but maybe a "busy" or "sharp" sensation

do you NEED ball joints? it's a place to save $$ if you don't need them -- and most people don't

Shaun @ Tru6 · 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathpunk dan

BFG G Sports 205/60/15.

Thank you all for the very helpful feedback. Will begin this weekend.

Dan

nice tires and those 60 series sidewalls alone are going to give you a little extra comfort and potholeability on the street.

On the 73, I'm running 19/26s, factory front rear bars, Bilstein sports all around and getting 205/55/15 front and 225/50/15 rear new tires next week. I think it's going to be firm and planted, but I'll have be careful, even my 4Runner with 31s sometimes disappear into a pothole after this winter.

JerryL · 03-23-2010, 12:38 PM

Shaun sounds good, did you get your rear bar mount added after you moved the pump a couple months ago?

71 Targa, doing 21 f 26R hollow T bars (still looking for rear may opt for one of the solid sets on the list now) 20 mm sways f & R (still need to move the pump & add mount when I add the al cross member) Bilstein front struts hope to have the spindles raised 24mm with in a week or two, sending inserts to Steve @ Rensport to revalve.
Adding the Al cross member, AL SC trailing arms w/ adjustable spring plates, sports for rear. Running 205-55-16's again SC stuff.
Need to pull the trigger on the ER bushings and get this done, starting to warm up!!

Good luck to all

Regards

equality72521 · 03-23-2010, 01:38 PM

Mine is strictly street and I went with ER polybronze when I rebuilt the front end. Everything else is stock up front but i DID replace everything at the same time. Ball joints, all bushings, tie rods ends, ... I couldn't be happier with it. I don't think it's too harsh at all with the PB.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-24-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryL

Shaun sounds good, did you get your rear bar mount added after you moved the pump a couple months ago?

hi Jerry, how have you been?

My car came with front and rear factory bars, so the mounts were already there. this weekend I've got to permanently install the pump up front, it's just resting in the smuggler's box for now so I could move the car, I still need to fabricate the front mounts for me, Erik and Mark. Would you have 1 7x15 cookie cutter by any chance? just need one.

equality72521 · 03-24-2010, 04:53 PM

Sorry Shaun, none here. All I have is a beat up old Fuchs 6x15 or something like that.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-24-2010, 05:48 PM

thanks anyway Mark.

deathpunk dan · 04-08-2010, 05:50 AM

Alright guys, I placed my orders with our host and ERP. Staying with stock t bars for for now, but that may change. (First I am going to try early factory sways and see how I like that).

ERP rubber a arm bushings
ERP sport rubber rear trailer arm bushings
ERP rubber spring plate bushings
ERP rubber strut top camber plate bushings
Bilstein HDs

I like the 'no maintenance' aspect of rubber and the implied additional compliance on rough roads. If it drives as well as my friend's bone stock 76 911S targa, I will be pretty happy.

304065 · 04-08-2010, 06:21 AM

Dan, you won't believe the difference those simple changes you describe above will make. I concur with the advice to get a 15mm bar, these are pretty cheap on the used market, it will make a big difference in handling.

These cars handle unbelievably well in stock form. . . it's getting them back to stock form after 40 years that's time consuming and expensive.

berettafan · 04-08-2010, 09:19 AM

hmm....camber plate bushings eh? haven't done that yet.

porschenut · 04-08-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathpunk dan

Alright guys, I placed my orders with our host and ERP. Staying with stock t bars for for now, but that may change. (First I am going to try early factory sways and see how I like that).

ERP rubber a arm bushings
ERP sport rubber rear trailer arm bushings
ERP rubber spring plate bushings
ERP rubber strut top camber plate bushings
Bilstein HDs

I like the 'no maintenance' aspect of rubber and the implied additional compliance on rough roads. If it drives as well as my friend's bone stock 76 911S targa, I will be pretty happy.

Those choices are the wisest you could have made, IMO. You will LOVE how the car feels when you're done.

Walt Fricke · 04-09-2010, 06:23 PM

Another good thing about upgrading a street car of your early vintage to be a new (suspensionwise) street car again is that you should be able, inexpensively, to upgrade the torsion bars if you want a slightly stiffer ride: ask around for guys who still have the stock bars they took from their later model cars when they decided to make track (or dual purpose) cars out of their street cars. The bars got bigger as the cars got heavier.

Up through 86 or so they all interchange in the rear, and the fronts do through '89. I've still got the bars from my '77 sitting in my stash. I'd probably give them away to someone local who would come get them.