Super Rare Motor Back On eBay

[JuiceMan]

Just thought I would let you folks know that the guy with the so called, "Airplane Engine." Has relisted on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=598684448&r=0&t=0


He needs to figure out what he has before he trys to sell it seems to me.

[emcon5]

I got to give him credit, he gave a link to the last thread we had on it. Kind of rings of honesty, something all but unheard of on Ebay.

Tom

[Dave Bouzaglou]

The motor is indeed a PFM 3200. It was installed in the Mooney for a short while. It has several innovative features, it flew fantastic, but it was a commercial flop. Nobody wanted to pay the high premium over the standard Mooney engines. The ignition is magneto fired- FAA would have none of the "normal" spark set up when it comes to flying. That weird assembly on the front is the gear reduction for the propeller drive. Tip speed on props goe supersonic and you cavitate air if the rpm is too high. It would be quite a job to install this in a car. More than likely almost all the "outerwear" of the motor would have to be replaced with its automotive equivalent to put into a 911 body.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Dave Bouzaglou
The motor is indeed a PFM 3200. It was installed in the Mooney for a short while. It has several innovative features, it flew fantastic, but it was a commercial flop. Nobody wanted to pay the high premium over the standard Mooney engines. The ignition is magneto fired- FAA would have none of the "normal" spark set up when it comes to flying. That weird assembly on the front is the gear reduction for the propeller drive. Tip speed on props goe supersonic and you cavitate air if the rpm is too high. It would be quite a job to install this in a car. More than likely almost all the "outerwear" of the motor would have to be replaced with its automotive equivalent to put into a 911 body.

To the best of my knowledge the motor in the Mooney was based on the 3.2 Carrera. The blimp motor is based on the 3.3 Turbo motor. Excellence had an article many years ago on the Porsche powered Fuji blimp. The motor pictured is defiinately a Turbo motor i.e. this is the "blimp motor" not the PFM3200 Mooney one.
-Chris

[pwd72s]

Is there an aeronautical section on ebay? Maybe this guy would have better luck listing there?

[Doug Zielke]

This is the PFM 3200 as used in the Mooney airplane. Note: the absence of turbochargers. Yes, the guy on e-bay has the Blimp (turbo) version. Now, will somebody buy the damn thing, put it in their car, and tell us how fast it goes

[kstar]

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
This is the PFM 3200 as used in the Mooney airplane. Note: the absence of turbochargers. Yes, the guy on e-bay has the Blimp (turbo) version. Now, will somebody buy the damn thing, put it in their car, and tell us how fast it goes

Maybe somebody should buy the damn thing and put it in their blimp!

. . . or maybe their Segway!

Best,

Kurt

P.S.: I still think someone should build a true "flying 911".

[Wayne 962]

Anyone heard of someone putting a 911 motor in their boat?

-Wayne

[beepbeep]

Hey! That blimp engine is good stuff! Dual-plugged heads and all...

If you pull off reducer gear , reroute exhaust and put in a new IC it's probably possible to put it into a car...

[Dave Bouzaglou]

There was a couple of brothers that put a 2 valve 928 motor in their ski boat. Sorry no pix. hmmm.. what if we got 8 blimp 3200s attached them to the spruce goose, then we would have a flying boat Porsche! Now would that be Das Boot?

[JuiceMan]

I bet if this engine was installed in a car it wouldn't perform very well. I mean wouldn't the cam grind be way off for a car? I'm sure that motor doesn't run at the same RPMs in a blimp as it would in a car.

Why on earth would someone want to destroy an engine like that by changing everything on it to put it in a car when they could probably just build a more powerful "car." Engine for a cheaper total price?

[Decolliber]

Originally posted by 69-912
...wouldn't the cam grind be way off for a car? I'm sure that motor doesn't run at the same RPMs in a blimp as it would in a car.

I think you are right. My old 74 Piper Cherokee had a maximum rpm of about 2400.

[Early_S_Man]

rstoll wouldn't need to change much on that engine to put it in a Swamp Buggy!

[rscupper]

It begs the question ... how much helium can a 911 hold?

[emcon5]

Originally posted by Early_S_Man
rstoll wouldn't need to change much on that engine to put it in a Swamp Buggy!

That would be pretty cool.

[Early_S_Man]

Could a 150 mph Swamp Buggy be the next niche 'SUV' market for the Stuttgart guys ... Swamp Utility Vehicle?

[Eric Coffey]

I went to the Oshkosh experimental aircraft "fly-in" a few years back, and there were at least 4 kit/home-built planes there with Porsche aviation powerplants. Two of them were easy to spot due to the huge factory crest stickers on the tail or fuselage! Ideally, thats who this motor will go to; a fellow Porsche enthusiast who is building his/her own plane and needs a powerplant!

-Eric

[jlr69s]

People put all kinds of Chevy and Ford V-8's in their airboats, that would be pretty sweet if they put a 911 or 930 engine in there!!!

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

I dont know which parts are required to make it work for auto use. But it can be done. This information was given to me by several top Porsche mechanics.

Well I think Warren must have contactet him several times ?


No this is not a PFM 3200.

Like said before it is a PFM 3300.

The numbers are coresponding to the displacement.

The PFM 3200 based on the 231 HP euro 3,2 L and the PFM 3300 based on the 300 HP euro turbo.

Those engines where the more powerfull sister engines from the PFM 3200. Porsche just focused on the 3200 as they didnīt had the capazity to make tests/approvals for both engines.
They also didnīt liked to start with the more "complicatet" engine and had to manage to incooperate the one stick flight managment to the turbo system. ( Well that system was as much loved from Pilots as a Tiptronic in a 964 from drivers. AH the point is Porsche drivers are not drivers becourse they pilot there cars )

When Porsche stoped the PFM project they convertet the existing 3300 to blimp engines. The PFM 3300 flight approval was just finished and it would have been sold to the marked at that time but the marked broke away as mooney decided to use Leycoming engines ( Thats a other story ) while the european manufactorers didnīt had enough marked to satisfy the coming investments. Like said before there where airplanes designed for that engine and those companys where hopeing to achive a higher production volume. The Mooney or other Porsche equiped planes are as usefull designed as a american muscle car with a Porsche 911 engine in it. Only real grazy people would buy such a package.

PFM engines have some modifications to the engine case and the oilsystem ( 4 point pickup ) but most parts can be used in a automotive engine. This case is allready a 964 unit.
But the parts will detune the car engine as they where made for other specs ( solidity over power output ).
The geardriven cams is not only loud and expensive it also draws more power then the chain setup. The heads have small ports and I think those where the first with Portliners in the aircooled Porsche.

The PFM was intended to run with a battery powered dual ignition and a dual DME but the marked didnīt liked it. So they wantet to used the CIS and magnetic verto ignition on the PFM 3300 with two smaller alternators ( less parasitic power loos ). This engine has CIS but a normal battery powered ignition. So it is not the final version jet Iīm not sure if a magneto vertex ignition was developed to the final production stage. I guess they would need very expensive high performance parts to fit it on the position or they maybe would have to hang them on somewhere else.

Porsche allready made several flight engines ( the first in 1909 was a 2 Cyl boxer ) and also 356 and 547 engines where used in planes. Also the VW boxer engines had been convertet to aircraftengines and are still sold today.

The major problem was that the $trade broke in and the PFM supporting heads ( P.W Schulz ) where cashed out.
The bookkeeepers didnīt see any reason to spend money to open a new marked with a very thick looby and no big partner
to have a secure position ( Guys compare it with the Chyenne situation, you see the points ? ). A analysis from the other companys engines brought up that they could lower there prices massivly and use there strings to pull ( loobying from loobstern ? ) the marked on there side.
The military was interesstet for flight drones and little trainer planes but the NATO didnīt liked "non domestic" systems ( see ROLAND missle system, LYNX, UH106, MRCA Tornado, Leopard II, HUM VEE ) and the european partners ( GB/France ) didnīt would need these systems and we had the Alpha Jet as training aircraft ( Witch was disliked for the enourmus runing costs ).
On the other side the german staate supportet the development from new designed Rotary and modular diesel flight engines and Porsche engeneering plus the FSKS Stuttgart where joined in there so they could see that the marked will revolt on the long run. ( Plus Porsche earned some buks there too )

But still to today the american enginebuilder rule the marked and have very wide ellbows to defend there position.

Just think about that they still sale a prewar desingend engine and no other engine manufactorer could bite in there. Even not GM or Ford. BMW shiftet to turbines
A other tidbit was that Porsche needed to transfer engeneering force to the race engines as the new V12 didnīt seem to outrace the detroit powered race cars plus had problems with the chassis.

OK thats no to Off Topic.....................

Well Porsche sold the engine with something like a lifetime service waranty and including the first rebuild as they wantet the long term datas. I guess there isnīt very much spare parts demand so Porsche might be the only company who could use that engine for spare parts purpose.
Craking it up for spare parts is the same sinn like braking up a Porsche race engine to salvage some street usable parts.

OK most guys think some hot rods would make a fast engine as they are used to beleive that from the domesrtic engines add on power games. ( Just get a new Hot Rod magazine and order the right parts, then add the claimed HP gain and you have 1500 HP but will still loose against a 400 HP Porsche engine )

I would offer it to real Porsche collectors, types like J.Seinfeld who just love the machine and the beauty in it even without the need to proof someting to your neighbours ( except that you have the rarest things in your stamp collection )

Grüsse

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Porsche did built watersport engines. The last stage where 6,0 DOHC V8 biturbo with some 750 Ponies. TAG owner Ojehi had a powerboat with 4 units and he always had fun on the F1 races at Monaco GP becourse most team owners and some racedrivers did race them on the mornings before practice. Power boat racing lets look Formula 1 like a secure job.

Grüsse