backdate oil system to '72...

[eimkeith]

Busy Saturday:

[Grady Clay]

Keith,

The real question; do you have all the oil system parts? The front 911S plumbing and cooler also?

Best,
Grady

[eimkeith]

Grady, I've got all the '72 911T stuff - but I haven't resolved the front cooler issue as of yet.

Do you have any diagrams of that setup? I would love to see how the factory solved the front cooler question (i.e. - thermostat position...)

Ultimately, I may go with a Carrera-style fender cooler up front...

Opinions?

[randywebb]

lotta work -- I wish I had a '72...

[eimkeith]

me too (obviously)!

[Grady Clay]

Keith,

As I said last week, I think I have some good illustrations
somewhere. Of course they might be in the stuff I gave away
almost 20 years ago and it only seems like yesterday.

The biggest issue is you are now committed to a ’72 only system.
Do it right.
IMAGE OilCircuit72Sa
"
"
© 9/1972 Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.

IMAGE OilCircuit72Sb
"
"
© 9/1972 Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.
I have these images as big (7.0M) files if you want. Just e-mail
me at gradyclay@hotmail.com

In the two illustrations they show two different oil tanks, #19
and #51 but they are actually the same tank 911.207.010.00.
The only other tank is for the Sportomatic 911.207.021.00. I
wonder if the Sportomatic tank was larger in addition to having
the two fittings for the torque converter hoses. Anyone know?

You are going to need to replace your oil filter console #8
(916.107.028.01) with #57 (916.107.028.00) that has three oil
fittings on the outboard side. It is possible to machine the #8 to
accept the thermostat (#58) and 3rd fitting (no number). Some
even came with block-off plates (#13) and plugs (no number).

I used to have some kits “for subsequent installation” that
included all the pipes, hoses and hardware but they are long
gone.

Elephant should be able to help you with the pieces to and from
the front cooler. I would use the ’87 Carrera cooler because it is
very robust, has metric fittings and accepts the Porsche fan.
There are good aftermarket coolers with AN fittings also. You
could use the pipes and front hoses from an SC or Carrera but
you will need to modify them at the rear to adapt to the ’72
configuration. One needs to be like #63 & #64 and the other to
be like #59 & #60.

Don’t use an original ’72 only cooler (#65). It is way too fragile
and any few should be for serious show cars.


Chuck, have you ever investigated Argus as a source? They were
the original manufacturer of much of the oil hoses, particularly for
the race cars. I used to have a supply of bulk metal braded
hose, aluminum fittings and the installation tools. They are now
a division of some large conglomerate – in the Netherlands I think.

Best,
Grady

[eimkeith]

Originally posted by Grady Clay

It is possible to machine the #8 to
accept the thermostat (#58) and 3rd fitting (no number). Some
even came with block-off plates (#13) and plugs (no number).

Grady - would it then be possible to machine the console to accept the later ('77) thermostat? I have the entire 1977 3.0L oil system as well as the '72.

I'll have to take a good look at the console and see if I have one of the ones with the blockoff plate tomorrow.

[Grady Clay]

Keith,

No the ’72S uses a regular engine thermostat (look at #58 in the illustration) it is 916.107.753.00. I’ll bet there is a supersession to a newer number and is an available part from our host.

Best,
Grady

[eimkeith]

BTW, Grady - thanks for all this tech.

Just so I'm clear on this - can the 77 thermostat not be used in a different location (like nearer the cooler)? Or am I missing something about the two systems that make them more than just the same system with components in different locations...?

[Shuie]

You can machine the T housing to use a regular engine thermostat. Remove the plug from the third orifice and install the threaded male connector and you have an S housing. Call Jeremy or Tyson at TRE if you want this done. Chuck Moreland at Elephant Racing has the oil line situation figured out. Chuck also has all of the oil fittings you need. Get the fittings and bring the old '72 hoses to a hydraulic shop to have a new set made. Its a money issue more than anything else. Not really too difficult, you just need to score the parts.

[Grady Clay]

Keith,

Perhaps I didn’t understand. Are you considering putting the ’77 thermostat in the front near the cooler?

There are some advantages to this and at least one serious disadvantage I can think of. The advantage are you don’t have much room in the RR fender area with the ’72 oil tank. It also forces all the oil to circulate to the front, bleeding only what is necessary to the front cooler. The serious problem is on starting cold there isn’t any pressure relief short path back to the tank. I can see this over pressuring the system and causing cooler failures.

I think your best bet is to mimic the complete ’72 system.
Sherman gave you some good advice.


Best,
Grady

[eimkeith]

Sherman - thanks for the tip - that looks easily doable.

so, back to studying the drawings for me...

[eimkeith]

Update: I am pretty sure I am going to pull the panel in the engine compartment (only tacked in at present) and have A/N fitting welded onto the tubing there, so I can properly run SS Braided Lines in this system.

Comments? Opinions?

[bigchillcar]

besides maybe moving the oil tank forward in respect to center of gravity, what other advantage is there to this system besides the coolness of looking '72?
ryan

[eimkeith]

well, those were reasons one and two of the two reasons!

really, It was more of having a cancerous '72 that is providing backdate panels, and having never done that kind of thing before.

I do think it is a better layout, weight location wise (as is the weight-crimes of the 911 could really be corrected), and as you metioned, a distinguishing (and distinguished) feature of the '72, making it unique.

I don't know if it makes it any more or less sensible knowing that I'm doing this to one of 2000 cars made, but the car is getting progressively more interesting to me.

[Tyson Schmidt]

Keith, the two elbows that run through the inner panel are only for the breather hoses. Don't mess with them.

The best way to do this is to machine the '72 filter housing to accept an engine thermostat like others mentioned earlier. We've got the fitting you need to replace the plug on the filter housing.

The hardest part is plumbing between the hard lines under the rocker, to the filter housing and the tank respectively. Not that big of a deal though.

[randywebb]

"better layout, weight location wise"

- I posted the info from the factory adv. in an old post - they state about 6" change in the CG, IIRC. I never thought it could be that much...

Note that they returned to this location with the 964...

[Grady Clay]

Here is another diagram.
I know I have some with the internal plumbing of the oil filter console.

IMAGE OilCircuit72Sc.jpg
"
"
(C) Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.

Best,
Grady

[eimkeith]

Grady - that is VERY helpful. A diagram of the inside of the oil console would also be greatly appreciated!

[donstevens]

Grady (and others),

My 72 has only the engine oil cooler and I'd eventually like to add an auxilliary cooler. So, this thread is of great interest to me.

Do you happen to have a diagram that does not include the front aux cooler so I can see the routing of oil on a standard 72T?

I have been considering adding a rear deck lid cooler in series with the engine mounted cooler. In this concept the heat exchanger would mount under the deck lid much like the A/C condenser does an A/C equipped car. Needless to say, my car does not have A/C nor do intend to ever add it. My thought is that I would simply rout the partally cooled oil from the engine mounted cooler to the deck lid cooler and then back in to the tank. I realize that this would pre-heat the inlet air to the induction system but I am guessing that it would be no worse than an A/C car.

Have you ever heard of such a scheme? Any thoughts?

Don