Top End Rebuild - can it be done in time?

[disfin]

After owning my 87 for a little over a year I decided it was time to take care of the oil consumption and compression issue. The car is burning about a quart of oil every 200 miles and has 114k on the clock so it was time to freshen it up. A local Pelican, Donnie Weymer (Dwymer), offered to host this endeavor at his house since he had recently rebuilt his 2.7. Since I am a rookie having only completed projects like valve adjustments, brake pads, etc, I was excited to have knowledgeable help with the process. There is only one caveat... Donnie is moving in two weeks. That means that everything has to be completed by then, including sourcing parts, shipping heads to and fro, as well as all the actual labor. Are we being aggressive? Will it be complete? Will I get my car dropped off in my front yard in a pile of parts? Only one way to find out - follow this thread!

Initial thoughts are to pull the engine, send the heads off to Bob at Anchor Atlantic for a rebuild, and then assess the cylinders and possibly re-ring. At the same time, examine the rest of the engine and compartment for wear and replacement of various parts.

Monday: T - 8 BD. We pulled the engine and got it on the stand. I broke the throttle linkage extension rod trying to pry it off the ball under the tranny. Add it to the list of parts. Apparently it has a three day lead before it gets shipped off. Not good. Also found a leaky fuel hose that runs from the fuel pressure regulator to the fuel rail. Its about four inches long and costs more than you would imagine. Also not good. (Does anyone have an extra)? The three wiring clips (CHT sensor, etc) are all very brittle and one crushed when removing. Not sure if they make replacements for those, but I'll have to figure that one out later, don't have time now.

Tuesday: T-7 BD. We got the heads off. No broken studs. Only had to cut one exhaust nut off. Overall a smoother day.

Wednesday: T-6 BD. The heads go out today - overnighted. I can't even imagine what that will cost. Also placing first big order from our host for parts.

Here are some photos including the obligatory standing in engine compartment. Also, is the picture of the leaky hose. Please let me know if you have one lying around! More photos to come.

John

[yelcab1]

Don't do it. Unless you pay a machine shop a lot of money, they are not interested in giving your heads back in a short amount of time. THen there is always the while-in-there syndrome to worry about. 2 weeks is not enough for me.

[304065]

I love it. Bob did my heads about a month ago, I believe he WILL perform. Shipping will NOT be cheap, but imagine that you are the Factory, getting ready for Le Mans!

[disfin]

Here are a few more photos. Notice the build-up in the exhaust port of the head. Looks like stalagtites. Anyone care to chime in about what that is? I'm guessing its carbon buildup, but its looks really bad. It has to restrict flow.

I just got off the phone with Bob from Anchor Atlantic. What a nice, helpful guy. He's going to turn the heads around quickly to help out the time constraint.

I like the racing number magnets on the side of the car. I'll have to get myself a set. Maybe tonight I'll make the car a 993 - nah.

[wolf]

Fun! White carbon?

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Wow, that is an agressive time schedule. It took my shop two weeks, and they have an in-house machine shop. How are you going to clean the cam towers and the other bits that are not going to the machine shop? Are you only doing a top end or splitting the case?

Good luck... Keep us posted.

[JeremyD]

Mine looked similiar - although not quite that bad.

2 weeks is pretty darn aggressive - now would be a good time to change the carrera gas line and reference and speed sensors - cht for that matter - much easier to get to when the engine is in this stage.

[aj88cab]

Two weeks! God bless you if you can do it. You might want to keep a trailer and tow vehicle on standby A hydraulic hose shop might be able to remake the fuel line for you, that hose clamp doesn't look factory though.

Good Luck!

edit - Curiosity got the better of me and I checked my car. The hose clamp is factory!

[dfink]

May I suggest that you start looking for a friend with a trailer.

Make sure you have everything ready to go back. Make a list of items you have here and maybe we can help fill in the blanks.

For the fuel line I would just get some good injection rated line and use hose clamps to get the thing up and running. Though not easy it can be replaced later.

I would for sure do the two referrence sensors. Also check all the vacuum lines. The size adapter hose to the brake vacuum, the size adapter hose for the PCV, the two large hoses from the oil tank to the engine.

There is no replacement for the car side of the O2 sensor. Just cut it off, strip back into the wireing a bit and solder on a three wire connector of some sort. The replacement O2 sensor should have 3 wires, 1 for the sensor and 2 for a sensor heater.

Did I mention a trailer.

Also supply items like anti-sieze, anaerobic gasket maker for the cam tower to head seal. JB weld to re-seal the various molding plugs. Thread locker - red and blue.

It took me about 2 days to put the engine back togeather and get it in the car. And by two days I mean about 20 hours. I don't even want to think how many hours I had cleaning parts and I am not that picky.

If you are working at a real fast pace make a list of must do items and check them off. Have all your parts sorted into plastic bags by item so that when new parts come you can compare to the old parts and make sure that you have everything you need.

[dweymer]

Originally posted by JeremyD
Mine looked similiar - although not quite that bad.

2 weeks is pretty darn aggressive - now would be a good time to change the carrera gas line and reference and speed sensors - cht for that matter - much easier to get to when the engine is in this stage.

Those are the plugs that disintegrated when touched.
I have the "shop supplies" needed, and I also have a trailer if needed! I even told John I would take the car to NC and finish it if we don't.

D

[disfin]

So far the progress seems good, considering we began to tackle this on a monday of a work week.

With the heads sent off to Bob, it was time to do some cleaning while we waited for their return as well as the parts from Pelican. Last night we cleaned half the engine case and the majority of the bolt-on parts. Tonight we clean the transmission, finish up the case, and any other misc parts.

I ordered new return tubes, a gasket set, a new CHT, a sound mat and a few other misc items. I'm debating adding new reference and speed sensors to the list while i'm at it. Are they just one sensor or are they two seperate sensors? They look identical and are hooked together.

Still working on sourcing the fuel line and linkage extension as the shipping delay from pelican puts it out of our rebuild window. I spoke with Sid at Troysport last night and he thought it wouldn't be a problem to find a solution for the throttle extension. Either use his supplier to find a new one or fabricate one. The fuel line will be another story, as it is hard to find. I spoke with a hydraulic shop yesterday and they said they should be able to fabricate it for me. Keeping my fingers crossed.

John

[dfink]

There are two referrence sensors that go into one bracket. They are identical. They are removed by taking out the allen bolt. Do not remove the bracket or you will have to re-position. Not that hard out of the car but still no need. The rubber goes bad and exposes the shield wire. They are expensive but are one cause of intermitent problems.

Very easy to do out of the car. Very hard to do in the car.

[Superman]

Here's a great bar bet: Bet someone they can't eat one of those small bags of Planters Peanuts in a minute. Sounds easy, but it's nearly impossible. Here's the reason I mention this peanut thing: If the person does not put all the peanuts in their mouth in the first fifteen seconds, they will fail. You need to remove and disassemble everything very quickly. Get them soaking in a parts washer. Predict you will want to at least see the condition of the rings and when you do, you'll make a decision to "freshen" that too. This means decisions about cylinders and pistons. There is enough information about that decision here on Pelican that you would need at least two weeks to read it all. I re-ringed my Alusils and it has worked fine. You will consider splitting the case. If you do split the case, you will find a worn layshaft bearing and a fairly worn flywheel end main bearing. It will be fun to be at this point, because the guts of an engine are pretty simple. WAY more simple than all the bolt-on components you are dealing with now. In your shoes, I would consider balancing the crank and rods.

I hope you won't need a trailer, but I think you will.

[BReyes]

If you think another set of hands will help you make it in time, pm me for my tel no., and I can help.

And looking at the pic-that fuel line is a dealership item. They will order it for you. It a dealer only item.

Regards,

[JeremyD]

Amazon hose in tampa will do the fuel line * both parts - they did mine...

[disfin]

Just had the hose made by a local hydraulic shop. Thanks Andrew for that suggestion. A place called royal brass and hose here in Orlando did it for $10. I may take off the big expensive fuel hose Jeremy was referring to and see if they can replicate it as well.

Bernard, thanks for the offer, we could probably use your help later next week when parts start ariving (hopefully).

Superman, you gave me some interesting things to think about. I'm not sure if I can eat a whole bag of peanuts.

[Superman]

disfin, I freshened my engine at about 183k miles. It was not burning oil and it was running great, but had a broken head stud problem. BTW, you really should remove those exhaust-side studs and replace with cheap, plain steel ones like those on the intake side. Used ones work fine, but the Dilivar units are a time bomb. What's worse than the expense and time of a Porsche engine rebuild? Two Porsche engine rebuilds.

I digress. When I disassembled my engine, I found the rings were at the edge of factory spec. The ring gap was fairly wide. I also found that the ring lands on the pistons were not worn, and that the cylinders were basically not worn (.0015" is the most wear I could find on any cylinder!!!). I also found the exhaust valve stems were worn. So, the engine got new valves and new rings. And new bearings. It is unlikely I will ever disassemble this engine again. It is unlikely I will have any reason.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

I was thinking that the rings might be an issue as well... If you were using that much oil, I would think it was getting past the rings (unless you were dripping one quart every 200 miles).

My manifold gaskets were brittle and had fine cracks that would have only gotten worse over time. So they were changed too.

[disfin]

With Donnie taking a load up to NC, we had Friday - Today away from the car, so no progress has been made. However it looks like we are still tight, but barely on schedule - knock on wood.

I had been thinking about doing the rings so I went ahead and ordered the rings and gaskets. They should be here tomorrow along with all the other items ordered from PP.

Bob completed the heads. New exhaust valves, guides, regrind etc. They should arrive in orlando on Thursday. Thanks to Bob for expediting it!

The goal will be to do any work that can be done without the heads prior to thursday. That means changing misc gaskets and parts as well as re-ringing. That will leave thursday-saturday to put it together, set timing, re-install and head off any of the unanticipated issues. Did I mention that Thurs and Fri will be very long, hectic days at work? Oh, and we get to load up another moving truck load for donnie on Saturday as well.

John Meyers
Orlando, FL

[Gunter]

Originally posted by disfin

I had been thinking about doing the rings so I went ahead and ordered the rings and gaskets. They should be here tomorrow along with all the other items ordered from PP.

That means changing misc gaskets and parts as well as re-ringing.
John Meyers
Orlando, FL

Ordered rings?
Did I miss something here?
What type P/C's did you find? Alusil? Nikasil?
Each require different rings and Alusil is a gamble.
Re-ringing requires some cylinder preps, what is the plan?
Is the first land on the piston still in spec?

First rule of Engineering: It always takes longer and costs more than the estimate, especially if you are in a hurry.

An engine rebuild is only fun if you take your time and do it right.
Things are missed when in a rush.
For the bottom: Do not use new chains on old chain sprockets (I-shaft)

New chains without new sprockets? Read this!