More accident/insurance questions

[jrdavid68]

First off, the wife is very very sore and stiff, been to the Dr., got some drugs - medical side of this will definitely stay open at the time. She's more upset about the car than I am, only had it about five months, I keep telling her that cars can be replaced - I'm just glad I get to continue to crawl in bed with her each night - thank God for air bags, seat belts and the German attention to safety!!! The occupants of the other car were not seriously hurt either.

Yesterday, the wife was cruising through a green light in the 2001 VW Passat and out of no where comes a Toyota Avalon from the left, running a red light, and wife nails the side of the Avalon. The other driver admits fault, it's in the police report, she said she was talking with her passenger and was not paying attention! Plenty of witnesses including a driver coming in the other direction that almost hit the same vehicle. Pictures even made the paper.

I am looking for any advice that other members on this board might have from having gone through something like this or from working in the business. I have been searching through the posts tonight and have found some great tips on dealing with this. I want to make sure that I can put her back in to a different Passat, whether that be a brand new one or an undamaged 2001 with about 5K on it - put us back where we were.

The jury is still out on whether the car is totalled - adjusters will be looking at it on Monday. A cursory glance by the collision specialist at the shop where it was towed says the frame does not appear to be bent - when he rips in to it, that could change. I am thinking that if the frame is not bent, even if it costs $12-15K to fix (rough, off the cuff, ball park figure from the shop), the other insurance company will fix it. Trade-in to Retail value on one of these is $22.2-25.6K - and real replacement cost with a new one including Tax, Title and lic. etc will be just short of $31k. The main reason we changed cars this summer was because the aging Volvo that had been involved in a couple incidents before we bought it kept coming up with problems and nickel and diming us to death - I definitley don't want to go down that road again!

Any suggestions on how we should proceed? Our insurance is with Safeco and the other driver's is AAA and we are located in the SF Bay Area.

Thanks guys!
JrDavid68
1986 911 Carrera
2001 VW Passat - Not much left in front of the engine!
1972 Chevy C10 Pickup

[pbs911]

I am so sorry to hear of your situation. For some reason bad things happen to those who are good.

Get at least three estimates for repair.

I can say that I have dealt with Safco and AAA. Both will low ball you on the repairs and any other damages. The former more than the other. However, since the other driver admitted fault you should be dealing with AAA. They are a good company. At far as insurance companies go. Keep strong on your demands and insist on the car being totally repaired to your liking. By nature, insurance companies will try to pay the least amount of money. Contrary to belief, they are not in the business to protect you. They are in the business to make money. Know that going in. They are not looking out for your best interest. Do not take their first offer. Remember they have to pay. They will only try to get out as cheap as possible. Take every document. picture, receipt you have on the car. It makes the value greater.

Another option is to get a lawyer on a contingency fee basis if your state permits contingency fees. Make it very clear to the lawyer that you want the total funds to repair the car and for your inconvience. Remember, lawyers are in the business to make money too. The insurance company of the other driver will probably only pay for the car repair and a rental car. A lawyer can probably get more.

Get your wife to a doctor. Have her checked out. If the accident is bad enough to cause significant damage to the car, the posibility is there that she may be injured. Better safe than sorry. Sned the bill to AAA. There is no way you should have to pay for that.

I am just glad that your wife, you or anyone else was not hurt.

[Red911t]

I've been in the same situation, car running a red light and in this case hitting me. I think you are on track. Be sure you get a rental car and be persistent about the car being put back together to your satisfaction. Trust me it likely won't be at first. So despite the inconvience and frustration keep pushing. You may have some say in who does the repairs and I suggest you check out their reputation and make it convenient to home in case you have to go back and forth. As you said cars can be replaced, so more important is her health. In my circumstances my injuries were not initally evident. Ultimately, I had a hernitated disk, back surgery and rehab. So indeed leave the injury claim open, they can be settled separately and you have three years to settle the injury claim. They may not pay medical bills until you settle but your own insurance's PIP coverage should. Good luck and good health!

The wife

[makaio]

Glad to hear your wife is OK! I bought a 2001 Passat for my wife last February because of their excellent crash ratings, and because it hauls butt.

Remeber to get at least 3 estimates.
Demand a rental car, at the other persons expense.
Have your car repaired at the best body shop you can find.

[ChrisBennet]

I went through this once. Here's a couple of things I learned:
- If you let your own insurance company handle the details you might think that they would be happy to give you what you want because they aren't paying for it. This turns out to be incorrect. My own insurance company wouldn't pay to my satisfaction so I dealt directly with the other guys insurance.
- The other person's insurace company may try to limit you to say $25 day for rental. They can do that with their own customers because they have a contract with them. They don't have a contract with you so you are not limited by that.
- My state has some sort of Insurance department and they were fantastic; faxing my stuff, calling back, etc. Your state may have something similar.
- Dimished Value: Would you pay the same for a used car that been in an accident with $10-$15K damage that had been repaired? Of course not. The difference is is call "diminished value". I wasn't able to get anywhere with the insurance company on this but it may be different in your state.
-Chris

[jrdavid68]

Thanks for the replies, this board is a great resource, even if some things aren't Porsche related! Thanks Wayne!!

ChrisBennet - thanks for the phrase "Diminished Value" - that is exactly what we have been talking about and now I have a term for it!

On a bit of a side note, while this was a T-bone, my wife ran in to somebody head on, yet the Driver's front air bag did not deploy! The side airbags on the Driver's side and the one on the glove box area did deploy. Anything VW should be aware of?

Now we are off to the daughters soccer game in the brand new, but very clunky!, Mercury Sable rental.

JrDavid68

[JonSeigel]

Many issues here. I am a lawyer in S.F. When I was a greenhorn attorney, the firm gave me the personal injury cases (unlucky me). Although I don't handle them anymore, I do have a few comments:

1. AAA is a mingy (i.e. mean and stingy) insurance company. In Northern Cal. AAA is called California State Auto. Assoc. (CSAA). The good AAA that the poster from Souther Cal. referred to is Southern Cal Auto Assoc--a completely different company.

2. CSAA's insurance adjustor is not your friend. He or she gets promoted by establishing a track record of successfully underpaying on claims.

3. Take the car to three body shops. Don't let CSAA push you around or pressure you to take a lowball offer now. Make it clear that (1) you have the financial ability to wait to get a fair settlement or go to trial and (2) you will retain an attorney if things aren't resolved to your satisfaction.

4. Even if you wife is OK, don't let CSAA know it. This gives you additional leverage to negotiate your property damage settlement on the Passat. I am *not* saying that you should bring a personal injury claim if your wife is OK. Just don't tell them *now* that you won't be doing so. Assuming she's OK, at the right time, you can get them to kick in the extra $ to have the repairs done that you want by a body shop that you select if you make a deal to settle the property damage case without pursuing a personal injury case.

5. Don't let your wife speak to them--you handle it. They will try to obtain a recorded statement about the accident, but if their insured is admitting liability and it's in the police report, they don't need one. They will use it as a pretext to either get her to admit that she was at least partially at fault and to ask her questions regarding her medical condition. Nothing good can come out of a recorded statement, which is exactly why CSAA will want to take one. Don't go for the claim's adjustor's B.S. that it will help him or her in getting permission from higher ups to pay you what you are asking for. If they insist, tell them that you will have to hire a lawyer and discuss it with him.

6. If you're wife isn't injured, you don't need a lawyer. They are of very limited help in resolving body damage disputes. Only if your wife is injured, should you hire a lawyer. However, the threat of hiring a lawyer is good leverage with the insurance company.

Good luck and I hope everything works out.

Jon

[ebradway]

Even if you don't like Chiropractors, find a good one to take your wife to - one that is more than willing to refer you to an Orthopedic specialist. Most of time the physical effects of the wreck aren't really noticeable for a couple days after the wreck. And then there may be longterm damage that is only noticeable as an increase in occasional neck pain and headaches.

Get her evaluated thoroughly. If you are concerned with AAA then you may be able to file your claims through your insurance company and then they will purSUE the other company on your behalf. USAA, my insurance company, does this and I have always handled claims this way. I pay USAA and they act like I'm their customer. I don't pay the other insurance companies. In fact, I've had friends file claims against USAA as a non-customer and they said they were real a**holes. Granted, you have to pay your deductible when you file the claim through your own insurance but USAA pays it back if they recover the full amount (which they have always done).

[jrdavid68]

Thanks again, I really appreciate the advice since I have not really been through something like this before.

JonSeigel - Do you have any referrals in the BAY area if an attorney is needed? My e-mail address is: yuma_st@prodigy.net

The shop that has the car has already started to pull it apart at the request of the adjuster (my company's adjuster) to find out if the frame is bent or if there is any other serious damage that would deem it a total loss.

I talked to the Sales Mgr at the VW dealership where I bought the car to get a sense for what the car would be worth (as a trade-in) if it was fixed with repairs in the neighborhood of $15000. He thought the trade-in value would probably go down to around $16,000 (that's down from $22k + - talk about "Diminished Value"! ).

So, the next question is, if it looks like it will not be totaled, how would I go about getting multiple estimates since it is already apart in this shop? This shop appears to have a good reputation (no personal experience, but good with the BSB for 3 years, nice guys and great work on the lot etc.).

ebradway - thanks for the advice. So far, the wife has not gotten any better (3 1/2 days now). She is very stiff, sore and tender in the neck and back areas. Next, a call to our chiropractor in the morning for an appointment - next stop is an Orthopedic Dr.

Here are some pics of the car, unfortunately, the shop had just started to tear it apart when I got there with the camera:

http://www.zwebs.com/ross/pics/dec01/vw-crash1.jpg
http://www.zwebs.com/ross/pics/dec01/vw-crash2.jpg
http://www.zwebs.com/ross/pics/dec01/vw-crash3.jpg
http://www.zwebs.com/ross/pics/dec01/vw-crash4.jpg
http://www.zwebs.com/ross/pics/dec01/vw-crash5.jpg
http://www.zwebs.com/ross/pics/dec01/vw-crash6.jpg
http://www.zwebs.com/ross/pics/dec01/vw-crash7.jpg

Notice the coffee mug - it was in the cup holder on the console and coffee went everywhere. The wife was a bit out of sorts at the scene and with head in hands kept saying things like: "my new car!, my new car!, coffee all over my new car!). As Porsche owners, I am sure we all understand her attachment to the car.

Thanks again for all the help.

JrDavid68

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Glad to hear the wife is OK. I agree, that is the most important thing here. From my wife (Chiropractor) to your wife (hurting): Go see a competent Chiropractor. Ask around and find one you are comfortable with. Many astonishing things can be done with low impact, painless adjustments. Certainly one for my wife's records was a patient who came in complaining of knee pain. The MD he went too prescribed pain medicine and anti-inflamatories and told him it would be two weeks until he got better. Patient left the MD's office and went to see my wife. His knee-cap was moved into an abnormal position. Ten minutes and a patient who came in on crutches walked out carrying the crutches. Nothing miraculous, just honest work. Never saw the man again, had no need to.

[MBAtarga]

I realize you're not in Georgia, and State Farm insurance is not involved but I thought this was timely. A recent (Dec 1) injuction was issued against State Farm in the state of Georgia requiring them to reimburse vehicle owners for the diminished value of their damaged cars. I've attached a site with info:
Court Order

I found another site of interest as well:
Accident Check

Good luck and quick recovery for your wife.

[jrdavid68]

MM83targa - Great information!

UPDATE: The wife is slowly getting better. She took the week off, has been to the chiropractor a couple times and we will see how things are Monday. So far, she can't really stay in one position for too long - sitting, lying down etc.

I heard from the appraiser for my insurane co. today and the car is a total loss (over $18,000 in repairs). So, he said I should hear from the total loss dept. tomorrow or Monday regarding a settlement.

We'll see what they offer - anybody have any guesses? Here are the numbers:

My 2001 Passat - Retail (pre-molestation) $25.7K
My 2001 Passat - Trade (pre-molestation) $22.2K
New 2002 Passat - All fees included, out the door about $31K
- The above is basically the same price as the 2001

Thanks again for the advice and support!
JrDavid68

[carnut169]

I bet they tell you $19,500, hope they say $31,000! Good luck.

[jrdavid68]

Well, things are turning around. The wife is getting better, she went to work last week, still seeing a chiropractor to deal with the back and neck pain.

Thanks to all the great advice on this board, e-mail from members, attorneys, insurance agents and stories from personal experience, I was able to hammer out a deal with the insurance company and was able to get all of the original purchase price minus $1700 (medical side of this will be dealt with later). So we upgraded to the GLX - picked her up today - here she is:



Thanks again guys!!!

JrDavid68