SC suspension upgrade ?

[rlane]

I am trying to prioritize expenditures for upgrading my 78SC suspension. I am looking for autocross/track ed improvement as well as general improvment in handling on our local twisty country roads. The 78SC is essentially as delivered (hell it even had the air pump on it!) except for the proper chain tensioners/blowoff valve etc.
I would appreciate the groups thoughts on what to do first on a moderate budget (<1200$). I do have new tires on order but was thinking:
22/28 Torsion bars
Weltmeisters complete bump steer kit w/turbo tie rods
???
Also looks like the job replacing the torsion bars is pushing my skill limits...I read Waynes book...4 mechanics....
Richard

[magilla]

If you still have the stock tie rods, dump 'em. Get the turbo tie rods, and get a stable energies 3 point strut tower brace. There is one on rennlist for $128. All this will cost you $250 or less, and will make a remarkable improvement.

The new wheels and rubber (I am assuming 17" with Kumho's or something) will make the biggest difference.


Let us know what you decide. Beyond what I have done above, I will probably be on this same path next year.

Magilla

[911pcars]

Richard,
I believe the prevailing thought on suspension upgrades on our cars follow this order. This assumes everything is working fine in the first place.

1. Adjust ride height (+ adjust steering rack)
2. Upgrade torsion bars
3. Upgrade shocks
4. Upgrade sway bars
5. Install strut bar
6. Upgrade tie rods

Items 5 and 6 are a tossup.

Add corner balancing before alignment is needed (items 1, 2 and 6). It also depends on the time interval between each upgrade. Add improved/bigger/wider wheels and tires at any point.

The specific details of each item can be found in the archives.

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[pbs911]

I did the following on my stock 78SC, and each has its own performance value. But here it goes in the order of preference, IMHO:

All new bushings (a-arm, rear swing plate and sway bar) After 24 years the rubber is probably worn just by sitting there. About $125.00 and provides a more precise ride. Pretty complicated an time consuming but a DIY project.

Torsion bars 22/28 about $350 - 400 provides much better cornering. More complicated at teh rear but doable with some mech ability and Waynes book.

Turbo tie rod ends about $125 - 150. More precise feel to steering. If your are original, they are worn. Need a special tool to remove exiting tie rod ends.

All the above will require an alignment so its is best to do all at onceGet the car lowered and cornerbalanced at the same time. With the exception of replacing worn out rubber,this will probably provide the best results. About $225 - 275.

Camber strut brace. Bruce Anderson states this provides negligable benefits on torsion bar cars. I have to agree for street use. Haven't tracked the car yet. About $140 - 200.

Don't forget the shocks, if they are original they are worn. About $400.


I probalby forgot other items.

[rlane]

Good input guys...I had not considered the camber plates but they make sense.
Thats what makes this place so good is to have input from other folks who have been there and done that!

[II6]

If you upgrade your sway bars, don't forget to beef-up your mounting points at the rear. Otherwise, they will eventually break.

pbs911: I didn't need any special tools to remove my tie-rods, just an ordinary pickle fork. 11$ at any auto store.

[KTL]

Originally posted by pbs911
I did the following on my stock 78SC, and each has its own performance value. But here it goes in the order of preference, IMHO:

edit....

Turbo tie rod ends about $125 - 150. More precise feel to steering. If yours are original, they are worn. Need a special tool to remove existing tie rod ends.

I'm currently doing the tie rods and have the tool Paul mentioned. Not disagreeing with him, but the tool does not always work. The wrench has a hook end on it that fits into the notches on the inner part of the boot retaining ring. Thing is, there are four notches on the ring, 90 deg. apart. What's my point? The tool doesn't always line up with the notches when you're trying to remove the ring. I had to result to the channel-lock pliers and consequently ruin one of the two rings (the first one came off with the hook tool). Still, the tool is a nice thing to have as it is a combination hook end and thin 32mm wrench end which is used for the turbo inner rod ends. Mine's made by SmartRacing Products which i'm sure is the same as the one Pelican sells.

Pickle fork works great for outer rod end removal, but if the fork is the wider opening kind (some say pitman arm removal or tie rod removal) it might wreck one of the rod ends like mine. No big deal as the turbo kit has new outer ends. Just thought i'd mention that if someone were to want to save their rod ends. Probably have to then use one of these?

.

Just my opinion/experience

[piperpilotduane]

KTL Wrote about the nut with four indentions. I have removed them from both my cars and a couple of friends cars with a flat chisel to break them loose and used a pair of chanel-locks to screw them off. The chisel did not cut into the nut but a little and I could have re-installed them, but installed turbo ends instead. I use some blue lock- tite and large open end wrench to put the turbo tie rods back on. Good luck! Duane

[spinner]

Replace the shocks with either Konis or Bilsteins - big improvement. Larger torsion bars - I use stock 19 front and 27 rear on my 87 Carrera. It's terrific for the street but I plan on going to 22/29 mainly for the track. While you're doing that, might as well replace the anti-roll bars and bushings. Replace those silly stock bar mounts with heavy duty because they will break whether you change the bars or not. Lower the car to at least euro height or less. Put good rubber on the rims. Finally, get a really good alignment from a pro.

So, lets add up the costs..
Shocks $450
Torsion bars $450
Bushings $100
New sway bar mounts $200
Good alignment $120
Good rubber $400
Anti-roll bars $500-$1500
Strut brace $150 but not needed

Since the proposed mods exceed the $1200 budget, just go with the stuff that gives most bang for the buck. I would go with shocks, torsion bars, rubber, and the alignment.

Have fun.