Knee trim removal - 78SC

[Curio123]

Hi Folks,

I am trying to remove the knee trim as the first step in replacing the ignition switch assembly (my key is stuck in the on position and won't come out - had to pull the fuel pump relay fuse to turn the engine off).

The Bentley guide shows there is a screw next to the hood release (and then 2 other screws). On my car there there is no visible screw anywhere on this assembly. I've tried to get a mirror back there, but I don't see any clues.

Can anyone advise how to get this knee trim temporarily off?

Thanks in advance.

Robert

[Scott Douglas]

Robert
It's been a while since I replaced my switch but here's a picture showing how it looked with the pad off. I think you're looking for nuts, not screws, but I could be wrong. I can't remember. I know it isn't hard to get off 'cause I did it.

[pete3799]

No need to remove the knee trim.
The bolts that need to be removed are shown in the above photo.
Top left and bottom right are shear bolts so you will need to either slot them with a Dremel
and turn them out with a screwdriver or i got mine out by useing a prick punch and putting
a dimple in them at the bottom and hammering them around.

[Walt Fricke]

Scott's picture jogged my memory some (I now have a roll bar tube across where this knee pad used to be, so I can't just go look), and I am pretty sure that the pad has a bolt cast into it (sort of), so you are looking for a nut with a washer on the inside of the steel dash pointing forward (you can see the slot for this in Scott's picture).

The Bentley for the 3.2 says you need to remove the air vent (and the radio) in order to get at the nuts/washers on a cast in bolt which points upward. I don't know if there was a change in here somewhere.

However, why take it off at all? The Bentley I have (for the 3.2) says remove left side knee protection, but why?

I've replaced the rear part of the ignition (where all the electricity is) several times, and never resorted to pulling this pad. I'd much rather not have had to assume the pretzel position to do this work, but don't think the pad is in the way.

Pulling the whole switch, key lock as well as electrical part, is also not going to benefit you much from removing this trim piece. The main work is 1) pulling the breakaway bolt heads. This involves either cutting a screwdriver slot into the round heads, or being lucky with vice grips (I was lucky).

And, 2) getting at the screw or bolt which attaches the wheel lock apparatus (which is integral to the key lock) to the steering column housing. I don't recall the trim getting in the way of doing this, though it is well buried up amongst the wires and other stuff.

The best thing to remove for access is your seat.

Walt

[Scott Douglas]

I was actually able to drill out the breakaway bolt heads without removing the steering wheel. Once that is done the bolt that holds it to the steering column is the next hardest thing to remove. The lock mechanism will probably be under preload from the column. Put the key in and turn it while holding the steering wheel to 'unload' it, then the switch should come right out.
Assembly is just a reversal of the above.
Should I have disconnected the battery?

[Curio123]

Thanks guys - really, really, helpful info - all of it.

Found the 2 small nuts holding the trim on (1 in the photo, the other just to the right of the steering column). Easy enough to remove with a socket and then fingers and I figured I might as well, since access to these ignition switch areas are painfully angled.

Removed the shear bolts with drill and extractor.

Got the steering column attachment bolts off without taking the wheel off (phew).

Thought I was home free... but now the ignition switch will not push through more than 2/3 of the way - getting stuck on the left side. The harness is removed and I have moved wires out of the way (mostly). Key is partially turned so the steering is not locked. I am thinking the wheel lock is preventing free movement of the whole assembly.

I'm baffled. Any ideas? Scott? I'm going to sleep on it and try again in the AM...

Robert

[Walt Fricke]

Er - why remove the steering column attachment bolts? Those are a pair of bolts, one on each side of the steering column, which go up vertically into the dash area and hold the steering column in place laterally. They are breakaway bolts, of the style (though thicker) used to keep the ignition in place (which your reverse twist drill nicely handled). They do not serve to attach the ignition switch to the steering column.

I'm pretty sure there is only one bolt holding the ignition switch (which includes the arm which houses the steering lock and reaches over to the steering column so it can lock it) to the steering column. There is a sort of cup welded to the outside of the column, with a hole going into the inside of that tube. The end of the lock arm fits into the cup. A screw (removeable from below) holds it there. The parts catalogs are a bit vague on this, alas.

The actual lock is a piece which, when the ignition is in the off position, slides into the steering column. The steering tube inside (which rotates with the wheel, etc) has a pair of steel rectangles welded to it, creating two indentations 180 degrees apart. The steering lock piece slides on top of these two pieces until it drops into the one of the two slots, which then prevents further turning. I believe a spring pushes it into place. Once it has engaged these it stays put until the key is turned to the on position. At that point some mechanism retracts it against the spring.

I say there is a spring because if you want to disable (but not remove) the steering lock, all you have to do is get it in the unlocked position, drill a hole through the housing and the lock arm inside, and put a cotter pin or sheet metal screw in the hole you have drilled. The ignition continues to work fine that way. This spring action also allows you to turn the key off, and rotate the wheel until the lock engages.

So if your ignition was stuck in the on position (and it was, obviously), then the steering is not locked. You can turn the wheel all you want, right? Even if locked, once you have removed all the ignition fasteners you should be able to work the ignition out.

If you have unscrewed the vertical bolt or screw attaching the lock housing to the steering column behind the dash, and still can't wiggle the ignition unit out, I can't help more. I dealt with this on the context of removing every nut and bolt and other thing on the front of my car, cutting the car in half, and replacing it all in a welded on new front. (A shop did the cutting and welding - I just did the dismantling and reinstalling). So while a lot of work, some operations were easier than in a running automobile.

I'd just wiggle and push more on the lock assembly to try to let it rotate toward the front of the car until it clears the dash, at which point it ought to fall into your hands.

But if it is still attached to the cup part on the steering column, you won't be able to do more than you have done. And my first instinct - a bigger rubber hammer - probably won't help.

Cheers

Walt

[pete3799]

I had to drill out the two rivits (top right and bottom left in the picture above)
in order to get my switch out. I had the same problem ,switch would hit against the left side of the mounting plate.

[Curio123]

Apologies Walt, your comment was educational, but I misspoke - didn't mean the steering column attachment bolts - I meant that I had removed the nut and allen bolt holding the lock to the steering housing. So basically I have done everything per the manual with the exception of removing the steering wheel.

Per Pete, I may need to take out the other 2 rivets pf the mounting plate - wasn't sure the remaining hole would be wide enough still. How did you re-attach the plate?

[Scott Douglas]

Robert, I think Pete has it right. I had to drill out the rivets too.
If I remember correctly, the hole in the dash is over sized, relative to the whole switch mechanism. When they insert the switch and align it based on steering lock engagement it (the switch mechanism) can be, and most likely is, located off center with respect to this larger hole. They (the factory) don't care because they then drill holes thru the shiny flange and install the rivets. We come along years later and try to remove the switch and find it won't come out thru the larger hole because of this off centering done at initial installation. Try drill the rivets out, put the key in and turn it to 'ON' to retract the steering wheel lock mechanism and with a little wiggle it should come out. I don't think I re-installed rivets in mine when I put it back together, can't remember. It works fine though and the twist off heads of the breakaway bolts fit under the cover of the switch too.

[Scott Douglas]

Here's how mine ended up looking when done. Only thing missing is the finish bezel which screws onto the tumbler housing.

Hope this helps get you back on the road.

[Curio123]

o.k. thanks - I'm sold on shooting the rivets.

On a related note, (this topic has clearly evolved from "Knee Trim"), I am pretty certain the original "stuck key" problem was mechanical but was prepared to do the entire contraption anyways. I believe the tumbler is removable with 2 screws (much easier when the switch is out - at least it seemed so at the time...).

Is there a way to get a matching replacement ignition tumbler (same keys)? Didn't see one on PP? Am I looking at either carrying around 2 keys or having to replace door locks (and glove) with new matching locks?

[Scott Douglas]

I only took mine apart to replace the electrical portion of the switch.
If I'd needed key work done I would send the whole switch to Tony Eugenio (sp?) the key guy back east and have him rebuild it. Google him and I'm sure you'll find his contact info readily available. I think he's in Pennsylvania if I'm not mistaken.

[Curio123]

All (Pete, Scott and Walt) -

SUCCESS!!! - rivets out and just enough room to remove the switch assembly - thanks again for all your collective help. Left a message with the key guy (of course the key turns fine now).

Stuffed everything back for now, sans screws, nuts and bolts, and took a nice ride - heh heh... too beautiful an afternoon to leave the SC in a garage)

This forum is truly an amazing den of wisdom.

Robert