Big Problem!!! help me..PLS!!
 

SmileWavy Hello everyone ... thank you in advance for the help that you give me ...
I am the owner of a 911 3.0 RSR replica as the original:
Amended RSR 3.0 MFI, high throttle bodies, gears light distribution, Mahle pistons and cylinders (11.3:1 compression), RSR flywheel, pressure plate light, RSR camshafts, oil pump 3.3 turbo heads are 3.2 amended 42 / 43 valves, sports clubs, valve guides Bromo - Beryllium, eilbach valve springs, titanium retainers, 3.0 sc distributor twinPlug amended, ALL THE BEST ...
The problem is that there is a huge gap in power at 4500 rpm ...
How can I do to eliminate this gap in power and torque?
Thanks to alhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282180135.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282180178.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282180216.jpg

you may need to run it on a dyno to duplicate the problem and analyze the results. that stuff takes some time to dial in.

on Dyno resul :
28kgm @ 6320rpm
247,2hp @6320rpm
tomorrow i will go on anthor dyno to do another test..and after i pubblic result..

There is no simple answer with MFI.

You may all this already, so bear with me.

You start by doing the CMA routine. This stands for Check Measure Adjust and is contained in a Bosch MFI manual. there is a PDF of it somewhere on here I believe.

there are a couple of great MFI threads on this site and some research by Pelicanites much more knowledgeable than I am. Read them all. Ask questions, and read more.

Before you do any MFI adjustments, the routine is to make sure the valve adjustment is perfect. Make sure the compression is good. Check and adjust the timing. them move on to the basic settings on the pump and the airscrew adjustments at each stack

Then use a modern AFR instrument such as one of the items sold by our host. With this engine I would install it permanently. You have to install a 18mm bung in the exhaust system for the wideband oxygen sensor. Then start tuning.

I have a 2.7 MFI RS replica and have really gotten it to run well using a Daytona Sensors Wego IV. this unit logs 2 hours of data from the sensor so you can compare RPM and AFR and analyze what is going on.

[I am a bit biased because I sell the Wego IV to Pelican, but would not endorse or sell it if I did not think it was the best value on the AFR market.]

Any good wideband AFR will work, but data logging and RPM measurement are very important. some units some even do MAP.

I had a lean spot between 2800 and 3200 RPM and was able to tune it out with the above process and lots of trial and error.

If you are running on a dyno they should have AFR as part of their instruments. If not they need to be measuring this to set up an MFI system properly.


I am sure you will get lots of good advice here on MFI......there are lots of very knowledgeable MFI people here.

be sure you have the right space cam

one guy built a MFI dyno - hope you don't need that degree of analysis

how can i do valve adjustment???????

Take a look at this and this.

By the way, I used to live in Comiso. Sicily is a wonderful place.

I wonder how the advance curve of an SC dizzy compares to what's expected for a 3.0RSR engine. Also, have you looked at your timing as you rev the engine up past your flat spot around 4500 rpm?

As RWebb mentioned, do you have the correct space cam in the injection pump for the RSR?

i think that valve adjustment is refer to MFI...

Valve adjustment on engine. Make sure everything in the engine is up to spec including timing and valve adjustment and before adjusting the MFI mixture.

:mad: :mad:

valve on engine is perfect...10 to intake 15 to ex..

???? Pls Help---

That dyno graph by itself is not very helpful. You really need to get an Idea of what the air fuel ratio is. Ask the dyno shop to measure and print lambda or air fuel on the chart. It would also very helpful to see a timing curve. Also, you didn't mention any bottom end modifications on that engine... I'm not so sure that I would be pulling it to 8,000 RPM :eek: It certainly isn't making more torque above 7200 and it looks like the horsepower is trailing off as well. There's probably no need to run it that hard, especially while you're diagnosing problems much lower in the power band.

-Ryan

I agree with the importance of an accurate air/fuel ratio reading with the dyno chart. I have built/modified a few MFI pumps for RSR spec engines and the challenge always seems to be a very lean area from around 3000 to 4500 engine rpm on the dyno. Not saying this is whats happening with yours. We really need to see some A/F ratios.

bottom end modificate:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282228316.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282228353.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282228387.jpg

ok i buy wideband tomorrow i install in my car....but i think in 4000-4500 rpm is too rich...and i don't understand why...many thx for help...

Well sir,........it looks like your FI pump needs some fine tuning, but I must say that this is what an RSR-cammed engine looks like,....:) :)

Having owned and raced these things, they make no power below 5K. With a properly setup pump, they have a good usable working RPM range between 5K and 8K, which is darned good for a racing engine.

for mfi fine tuning can you help me?

i don't understant why i have only 28.1kgm and 247.1hp!!!!!!!! :mad:

steve...do you have a munual(book) to fine tunning pump??consider that i have highbutterfly...

??

It is all about race cams.
Let me emphasize Steve’s wise assessment:
“…they make no power below 5K.”
“…good usable working RPM range between 5K and 8K.”

The RSR cams and large intakes don’t even like full throttle below about 5K.
You have more power or at least better running at part throttle.

Best,
Grady

sorry??can you explane?

grady...sorry i don't understend what do you mean...For you RSR engine...??!??

Nothing IDEA??

I will try and explain what Steve and I mean.
An RSR cam engine is designed just for racing.
In order to get maximum power at very high rpm, the cams are designed to not have poor performance at low rpm.
One is a consequence of the other.

With our old engines, it is not possible to have 911E performance between 2000 and 5000 rpm and still have RSR performance between 5000 and 8000 rpm.

It may be than something is wrong with the set of pieces you have.
For example, the space-cam in the MFI pump may be incompatible with the RSR cams.

It may be that you can improve the performance with careful adjustment of the MFI, ignition timing and exhaust.


Newer Porsche engines like 997 GT3RS have many complicated features that help make these differences less.


I hope this helps.

Best,
Grady

Translation by Google:

Cercherò di spiegare cosa Steve e voglio dire.
Un motore a camme RSR è progettato solo per correre.
Al fine di ottenere la massima potenza a regime molto alti, le camme sono progettati per non avere scarse prestazioni ai bassi regimi.
Uno è una conseguenza dell'altra.

Con i nostri vecchi motori, non è possibile avere 911E prestazioni tra i 2000 ei 5000 giri / min e ancora RSR di prestazioni tra 5000 e 8000 giri / min.

Può essere che qualcosa non va con il set di pezzi che hai.
Ad esempio, il cam-spazio nella pompa IFM può essere incompatibile con le camme RSR.

Può essere che è possibile migliorare le prestazioni con regolazione accurata delle IFM, i tempi di accensione e di scarico.


i motori più recenti come Porsche 997 GT3RS hanno molte caratteristiche che contribuiscono a rendere complicate le differenze meno.


Spero che questo aiuta.

Best,
Grady

what is Space-CAM????
many thx for traslation... ;)

The ‘space-cam’ is a 3D cam inside the MFI pump.
The characteristics of the engine are ground on that cam.
The main ‘inputs’ to the cam are throttle position and rpm.
There are also inputs for altitude / barometric pressure and cold running thermostat enrichment.
The ‘output’ of the ‘space-cam’ determines the air / fuel mixture.

There are different ‘space-cams’ for different engines.
One for 911T, one for 911E, one for 911S and one for RSR.
If you try and use the wrong ‘space-cam’ for the engine, the engine will run poorly.

You need to independently confirm that you have RSR camshafts and that the MFI pump has the proper space-cam for the RSR cams.

Even if you have all the correct parts and everything is adjusted properly, you will never have excellent performance below 5000 rpm.

Best,
Grady


Il 'spazio-cam' è una camma 3D all'interno della pompa IFM.
Le caratteristiche del motore sono a terra su quella cam.
Le principali 'ingressi' al camma sono la posizione della valvola a farfalla e giri / min.
Ci sono anche gli ingressi per l'altitudine / pressione barometrica e fredda arricchimento termostato in funzione.
La 'produzione' della 'spazio-cam' determina la miscela aria / carburante.

Ci sono diversi 'spazio-cam' per i motori differenti.
Uno per 911T, uno per 911E, uno per 911s e uno per RSR.
Se si cerca di utilizzare parte del torto 'spazio-cam' per il motore, il motore funziona male.

È necessario confermare in modo indipendente che si è RSR alberi a camme e la pompa che IFM ha il proprio spazio-cam per le camme RSR.

Anche se avete tutti i particolari e tutto è regolato correttamente, non avrete mai la prestazione eccellente sotto 5000 giri / min.

Best,
Grady

ok...undestood...you speak abou 3d space cam...yes my MFI is modificated to RSR spec. from Koller + Schwemmer in germany...(PUMP is ok)...

such a common "user interface" problem, that I just want to highlight it

be sure you know what you want on paper before getting into metal

I'd like to have 315hp @ 8000 and 32kgm of torque @6500rpm..

the Mfi is regolated about 7 deegre btcd 4 cylinder...
Is This a Problem????
how i can regolate MFI??

i wait wideband....
to regolation MFI ,how i must do???because if I move a tooth coming in less than 30 ° btcd .. now the MFI pump is set at 8 ° btcd...
thx all

May I make a simple request, please?

I compose all my Pelican posts in MS Word.
This allows me to edit my thoughts and post exact correct information.

In this thread, I take the additional step to add the Goggle Translate results from English to Italian. In this situation, I also try and keep my sentences simple. This seems to help the Translate feature.

You will get a much greater and accurate response if you carefully form your questions in Italian and then use the Google Translate feature to add the English translation.

Having the information in both languages allows those who are bi-lingual to correct the translation.

Much of this information, such as pump timing, is easily searchable on Pelican. While it is somewhat laborious to use Translate for everything, this may allow you to focus your questions.

Somewhere there must be an Italian translation of the Porsche Check, Measure, Adjust (CMA) document.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Grady


Posso fare una semplice richiesta, per favore?

Scrivo tutti i miei post Pelican in MS Word.
Questo mi permette di modificare i miei pensieri e post esatte informazioni corrette.

In questo thread, prendo il passaggio aggiuntivo per aggiungere i risultati Goggle Traduci da inglese a italiano. In questa situazione, ho anche cercare di mantenere le mie frasi semplici. Questo sembra aiutare la funzione Translate.

Riceverai una risposta molto più grande e precisa se si forma con attenzione le vostre domande in italiano e quindi utilizzare la funzionalità di Google Translate per aggiungere la traduzione in inglese.

Avendo le informazioni in due lingue permette a coloro che sono bilingue per correggere la traduzione.

Molte di queste informazioni, quali i tempi della pompa, è facilmente consultabile sul Pelican. Mentre è piuttosto laborioso da utilizzare per tradurre tutto, questo può consentire di concentrare le vostre domande.

Da qualche parte ci deve essere una traduzione in italiano del [u Porsche] Check, la misura, Regolare [/ u] (CMA) del documento.

Spero che questo aiuta.

Best,
Grady

ok thanks a lot ... now I write using a translator ..
Where to find this document CMA in Italian?
Then my question was:
My MFI pump is now set with 7 ° advance at TCD 4 cylinder, I can not set it at 14 ° Btcd 4 cylindre because changing the belt of another tooth adjustment goes to 30 ° Btcd 4 cylinder ...
How Can I adjust the MFI pump??
Thanks a lot...


ITALIAN:


ok grazie mille...da oggi scriverò usando il traduttore..
Dove trovo questo documento CMA in italiano??
Poi la mia Domanda era:
la mia MFI pompa è ad oggi regolata con 7° di anticipo al tcd 4 cilindro, io non riesco a settarla a 14° Btcd 4 cylindro perche cambiando la cinghia di un altro dente la regolazione passa a 30° Btcd 4 cilindro...
Come Posso io regolare la MFI pompa ????
Grazie MILLE a TUTTI

You don't have to adjust it tooth by tooth. The pulley has some adjustment to it. Picture below is self explanatory. And you owe Grady $12.50 x 3 or more.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282343491.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282343509.jpg

ooooo Many thx 356RS...

ITALIAN:

Grazie mille 356RS....

There are three socket-head bolts on the tooth pulley at the MFI pump. Loosen them to adjust between the belt teeth increments.


To review the MFI pump timing procedure;
This is the English translation from German.
This is from the 911 Factory Workshop Manual with some of my additions.
I am sure that the 911 Workshop Manual (1965-1983) was also printed in Italian.

Bring the number 1 piston to Top Dead Center of the compression stroke. Then turn the engine one complete revolution (360°) in the direction of engine rotation.

Continue turning slightly beyond the Top Dead Center mark, approximately 40°. Align the FE mark on the crankshaft pulley with the notch on the blower (fan) housing.

The pump is then properly aligned if the mark on the hub of the MFI pump belt pulley lines up with the mark on the MFI pump bearing cover. Check mark alignment with a mirror.

If the marks do not line up, the pump must be loosened. The spur belt may be moved one tooth at a time. If finer adjustment is necessary, loosen the three socket-head bolts on the tooth pulley at the MFI pump. Fine adjustment can be made.


I am concerned that you received your engine project from your mechanic with the MFI pump timing out of specification. If this is the situation, I would want to check and measure lots of other settings. Ignition timing, cam timing and valve adjustment are critical.

Best,
Grady

Ci sono tre viti a testa presa sulla puleggia dente alla pompa IFM. Allentare loro di adeguare tra gli incrementi di cintura denti.


Per rivedere la procedura di pompa IFM tempi;
Questa è la traduzione in inglese dal tedesco.
Questo è da 911 Factory Workshop manuale con alcune delle mie aggiunte.
Sono certo che il Workshop Manual 911 (1965-1983) è stato stampato anche in lingua italiana.

Portare il numero 1 pistone al Punto Morto Superiore della corsa di compressione. Poi girare il motore dopo un giro completo (360 °) nella direzione di rotazione del motore.

Continuare a ruotare leggermente al di là del marchio Top Dead Center, a circa 40 °. Allineare il marchio FE sulla puleggia dell'albero motore con la tacca sul ventilatore (ventilatore) l'edilizia abitativa.

La pompa è quindi allineato se il marchio sul mozzo delle linee di cinghia della puleggia della pompa IFM con il segno sul coperchio del cuscinetto della pompa IFM. Verificare l'allineamento segno con uno specchio.

Se i segni non sono allineate, la pompa deve essere allentato. Lo sperone nastro può essere spostato di un dente alla volta. Se la regolazione più fine è necessario, allentare le tre viti con testa presa sulla puleggia dente alla pompa delle IFM. La regolazione fine può essere fatto.


Mi preoccupa che si è ricevuto il progetto del motore dal meccanico con l'IFM pompa timeout di specificazione. Se questa è la situazione, vorrei che intendono verificare e misurare un sacco di altre impostazioni. tempi di accensione, i tempi di camma e la valvola di regolazione sono fondamentali.

Best,
Grady

Thank you Grady ...
The regulation of MFI is linked to the cam shafts
my cam shaft is RSR (6.20 mm setting)
the regulation of MFIs should therefore advance of 55 degrees
then 14 ° Btcd 4 cylinder
is this correct?


ITALIAN:

Grazie mille Grady...
La regolazione della MFI è legata agli alberi a cam
il mio albero a cam è RSR (6.20 mm settaggio)
la regolazione della MFI va quindi anticipata di 55 gradi
quindi 14° Btcd 4 cilindro
è corretto questo??