Starting Issues

[kidrock]

All suggestions welcome...

Just replaced old Bosch starter with a hi-torque unit about a couple of months ago with no problems. During the last couple of weeks, I've been having intermittent problems with a no-start condition. Plenty of juice (I've been measuring 12.5v-12.6v at pre-start) which makes a loud "click" at the starter. Doesn't matter if it's hot or cold, and only does it occasionally...but is becoming more frequent.

I've cleaned every single post, connection and ground from the battery to the starter motor, including the ground strap at the tranny. I don't know how old the battery is, but it is a correct series Interstate. I've had the car since January '09.

Is there a relay I'm missing, or something? I'm stumped.

[pete3799]

I'd have the battery load tested to be sure that's not the problem.
Mine suffered the same problem when i got it but cleaning the tranny to body ground fixed it.
Check the ground cable with an ohm meter.

[kidrock]

an Interstate dealer told me my battery is a dinosaur and are NLA. I'm going to make the switch and hopefully this will solve the problem.

I'm wondering if the high torque starters pull more draw than a regular Bosch starter...

[ischmitz]

wait - is the voltage pulled down by the starter motor when you try to crank or is the starter motor simply not turning over the engine at all?

If the starter motor pulles the voltage down to below 10V your battery might be bad (high internal resistance) - it can not deliver to current needed to operate the starter motor.

If the starter just clicks but nothing else happens and the voltage stays around 12 volts you have a bad starter relay. It might mechanically move but not switch the battery voltage to the motor. You could open the starter relay and inspect. I have seen these high-torque starters having cold solder joints at the relay.

Ingo

[kidrock]

Ingo,

you have a good point, I'll run a test on it this weekend when I get a chance. Would the test be run at the battery, or at the starter?

Also, I'm assuming when you refer to the "relay", you are speaking of the actual starter solenoid...not a separate plug-in type of relay?

[ischmitz]

Yes, the relay I was talking about is the starter soleniod. It switches the several 10 - 100 Amps when the starter motor runs.

First I would measure the battery voltage at the battery terminals when cranking. If it gets pulled down there you have identified a bad battery most likely (or a starter that sucks to much juice). The old Bosch starters would do that but with these high-torque versions that is less likley. If the voltage at the battery stays at a healthy 12V or more move to the next step:

Check the voltage at the soleniod (motor side) vs. GND. If there is a huge difference (i.e. you are loosing several volts from the battery to the starter) you have a bad connection somewhere or a poor soleniod. If the voltage is essentially zero while the solenoid clicks you need to open it up and inspect the solder connection and the copper contacts for burn-marks.

Cheers,
Ingo

[kidrock]

Thanks Ingo, I'll post the results in a couple of days...looks like I'll be replacing some control arms on the wife's BMW tomorrow.

[T77911S]

those old interstate's were great batteries. i had one that had a hole in it and one of the cells drained dry. the battery lsted almost a year like that!

someone on another post was talking about the sears gold batteries. i remember when the sears die hard was THE battery. now there stuff is junk. my dad had one of the gold series replaced under warrenty and i had several replaced before their time.
i think i just have an advance battery in the car now.

[kidrock]

I've been told that batteries from FLAPS and even WalMart are acceptable substitutions...I just have always liked the quality from Interstate. So I'll probably stick with it.

I just ran a voltage check at the battery. It pulled down to 10v when engaging the starter (which started). Battery was standing at 12.5 before engaging.

Analysis?