1968 911L electrical questions

[cabriobrad]

Ok, so a fellow Pelican has lead me down the proper path in finding the correct wiring digram, but now I have a few questions left...

In my wiring diagram they lable a few things weirdly...almost seemingly generic in nature. So how is a guy wiring his first Porsche supposed to know wht the heck they are reffering to?

For instance in the pdf below, which is the proper one for my car, item 45 and 46 control light unit, and control light relay, where are these, what do they look like, and if I don't have them, what are the part numbers so I can find some sort of replacement?

http://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/L57.pdf

There are other questions, but that seems to be holding me up for now.

Thanks

[304065]

All is revealed here: SWB Relays Analyzed - Early 911S Registry Bulletin Board

[Grady Clay]

That diagram is not for the 1968 911L USA but for the earlier 911s and RoW ’68.
It is missing the wiring, etc. for the “Hazard Warning” system.

Here is the similar (same?) diagram on Pelican.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/911_Parts/Electrical/911_electrical_1965.jpg

Note it too does not have the Hazard system.

I am looking at my ’68 911 USA original owners manual diagram and one for the ’68 911L USA. They have the Hazard system as does my ‘68 911 USA.

What are you trying to troubleshoot?

Best,
Grady

[cabriobrad]

All I am trying to do is rewire this car, it has pretty much been torn apart.

As far as I am aware from what I read on the relays post above, the "control light" is the hazard circuit.

[304065]

Grady, the hazard system is present in the diagram, you can trace the green/white coming off the unfused side of fuse #4, through the "add-on" fuse #57 and then to the control light relay and control light unit.

I would love to see a scan of your '68 diagram, to see how it is different! That would be interesting, as you know I love the early car electrical systems.

Hope you are well.

John

[cabriobrad]

any of you guys know of a replacement for 90161534110, the 4 pole hazard flasher?

[MikeDL]

I solved my hazard flasher problems thanks to John's SWB wiring detective work in the above threads.

The 901.615.341.10 factory part is NLA. I have seen reproductions on eBay but don't know if they work. John has posted a design that worked for him. I have a different design (John's didn't work for me, probably because of differences in the relays) that that works for me if you need it.

Making one is very easy.

[cabriobrad]

I think John's was specifically for the signal flasher circuit(not sure though), I need one for the 4 pole hazard flasher circuit...please do share

[MikeDL]

The diagram (post #13) in the early911sregistry thread is for the hazard flasher (part 45 in Grady's diagram) with connections for "S", "L", "R", and "30".

[304065]

Yep, the "Kluge" (as the 912 bbs folks affectionately refer to it) is a replacement for the the Stribel flasher can with modern FLAPS parts.

There is a replacement out there on eBay for $85 or so, I will probably buy one and cut it open but that's down my list a bit. . .

Brad, instructions for the fix are in the other thread, along with explanation of the circuit logic.

[Grady Clay]

John,

I was wrong above.

All the early diagrams I have show the Hazard Warning system – the nomenclature is different.

In the ‘pre-‘68’ diagrams:
“Wiring Diagram Type 911, L57”
I don’t seem to have page L58
“Wiring Diagram Type 911S, L59”
“Wiring Diagram Type 911”

#45 – “Control light unit”
#46 – “Control light relay”
#56 – “Control light switch”
#57 – “Control light fuse”

On the diagram:
“Wiring Diagram Type 912” (3-instrument)

#45 – “Warning signal flasher”
#46 – “Warning signal relay”
#56 – “Warning light switch”
#67 – “Warning signal fuse with holder” (fuse separate from fuse block)


In the 1968 diagrams:
“Wiring Diagram Type 911”
“Wiring Diagram Type 911L”

#45 – “Hazard light flasher”
#46 – “Hazard light relay”
#56 – “Hazard light switch”
#57 – “Hazard light fuse”

Among all these diagrams; all the wires, connections and device internals appear to be the same for the Hazard Warning system. Good news.



Does anyone have a 911/912 diagram without the Hazard Warning system?

Does anyone have a 911 diagram without ‘S’ instruments?

Does anyone have a 5-instrument SWB 912 diagram?

While we help Pelican cabriobob with his project, let’s expand the body of knowledge of SWB 911/912 wiring.

I also have several wiring diagrams for ’69-’73 that are not in Pelican or EarlyS archives. All I need to do is to get high-res scans. There are several others that I know exist that I don’t have (’69 912, ’69 911T non-S instrument, ’70 911T non-S instrument, ‘71T non-S instrument, ’72-‘73 911TV and probably more).

Many diagrams were only available in the Driver’s Manuals for the particular car, not the Factory Workshop Manual and Supplements.


cabriobob,

Originally Posted by cabriobrad

All I am trying to do is rewire this car, it has pretty much been torn apart. [emphasis mine]

How about some images of the wiring condition of your project.

Best,
Grady

PS: John – I’m now on the road to being the ‘Bionic Man’ with new (including S/N) corneas last week. I have better distance vision than ever in my life. Reading wiring diagrams and Spec Books will be a challenge. Reading the diagrams last night was an example.
G.

[cabriobrad]

I would love a hi-res scan wiring digram of the specific 1968 911L that I have...that would be amazing.

[304065]

Grady, great news! I wish you a speedy recovery.

I'll send Wayne a note about posting these on the BBS with appropriate IP caveats.

The link to the 1969 service information is no longer working. Fortunately, I saved a copy. The 1969 wiring diagrams are the rarest of all, and there are a lot of guys here with 1969 wiring diagram questions.

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by 304065

The 1969 wiring diagrams are the rarest of all, and there are a lot of guys here with 1969 wiring diagram questions.

I have four excellent original 1969 “Wiring Diagram Type 911E, 911S” SL33 (including one new, never handled) – each slightly different. I need to scan them and resolve the differences. I suspect the differences were errors that made it into the Supplement and then corrected in later Supplements.

Ask Wayne how we can archive and have available to download VERY high resolution scans. The current archived scans don’t do justice to the originals.

Best,
Grady

[MikeDL]

Grady, best of luck with the aftermarket upgrades. I know you prefer OEM, but...

> Does anyone have a 911/912 diagram without the Hazard Warning system?

I'm pretty sure there is no such thing. My Euro 68T did not have a factory installed hazard system but all the wires (in the correct colors) associated with it were (at the factory, I believe) bundled together near the connector ends with a ~10mm wide plastic/rubber band that looked like the harness plastic cover. The hazard electrical components (switch and two relays) were not present at all.

[Grady Clay]

Mike,

I agree that our later SWB simply left off these parts when not delivered with the Hazard Warning system.

What I’m looking for is for very early cars (first few thousand?) before Porsche even considered the Hazard Warning system as standard. I suspect it was available as a kit ‘for subsequent installation’ and installed as an option (like the rear wiper in later cars). I think the 3-instrument 912 diagram is an example of the transition to the system being standard and ‘delete’ being the option for RoW.

I suspect this wiring diagram may have been in the earliest Factory Workshop Manual (when one volume) but superseded in Supplements I –XII. (Supplement XIII included the second binder labeled “II” and a “I” decal for the original binder.)

Best,
Grady

Originally Posted by MikeDL

Grady, best of luck with the aftermarket upgrades. I know you prefer OEM, but...

Even OEM isn’t the same as OE. You loose the ability to focus the lens. No big deal, just more reading glasses. My friend BA has four! I’m Ok with one for now as the transition is around 0.75 meter. Distance was R 20/10, L 20/15 yesterday and improving daily.
G.

[304065]

Grady, I think you are exactly right. The design of the early 911 electrical system is such that the hazard system is really independent of the rest of the system. Witness the following:

1) Add-on fuse to power the system, suggests that the original fuse box was not designed with it in mind. The SWB fuse box has a great deal in common with the 356, even the fuse numbers for the high and low beams are the same-- and the hazard warning wasn't required by law until much later.

2) Why use a separate blinker for the hazard system from the turn signals? Another indicator that it was a separate system. If you look at the LWB wiring diagram, they redesigned the system to use a single flasher for both headlamps and turn signals.

3) Look at the redundancy in the wires-- you could remove the hazard wires and the whole thing would still work normally.

I was thinking the early Euro cars wouldn't have the same wires-- but MikeDL's car has the same harness. If there is a difference, I bet it's very early. I'll ask Bob Fleming.

[MikeDL]

The special SWB hazard switch is listed as 65-68 so (assuming 65-68 is right) if the harness didn't support the hazard switch, it must have been only a small number of the earliest cars or an add-on

[Grady Clay]

My early (’64-’68) parts manual shows:
901.613.623.01
“Switch for warning light and rear window heating with control light”.
Obviously the same switch for two purposes.

Of course I dutifully updated this paper manual with each successive supplement.
The page for the above part is Supplement VII, 3/69.

The ’69-only switch is .02.

I suspect the part .00 may have been for the ‘for subsequent installation’ kit and the early version of the Factory installed Hazard Warning system.

I’ll look at Pelican fbarrett’s 3-instrument 912.
I suspect there is a separate harness for the Hazard Warning run in parallel with the main wiring harness. All originally installed at the same time during assembly.

John, how is your car configured?

There is also an unmolested very early 911 (#41) close-by. I’ll see if it has the Hazard Warning system and, if so, how installed.

Best,
Grady

[304065]

Grady, mine is just as you see it in the diagram. Well, to the extent that the diagram reflects reality-- the fuse box is upside down and backward to the way it appears in the car if you are looking at it from the trunk. Also, the white marker labels that show up on the wires to identify them, in my car, are actually red.