1968 911S with 69S engine

[terp722]

Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie so please go easy on me! I have a recently acquired 1968 911S with a 1969 S engine. I have quickly realized that I love the go-kart feel of the SWB cars but I'm dying for a little more juice. After talking to Will at Fairwinds Porsche (he maintains the car), I am leaning toward swapping the current motor/trans for 3.2 and a 915.

I am wondering if there is a market for the 69S motor to subsidize my motor swap. I am not sure of the mileage, but Fairwinds did perform a top-end within the last 3 years and couple thousand miles. Any thoughts? If this belongs in the Marketplace Discussion, I apologize.

I have attached a picture since it seems to be required for any new guys!

thanks in advance,
Gabe

[911pcars]

subscribed

[peon77]

You might have a person or two interested in your "old" motor. Post the ser no and see what happens.

[ErVikingo]

Value will depend on how much 69 S is left on that motor. I see that the MFI is gone so the potential value is on the S heads if still in there.

[terp722]

Sorry, forgot the serial # - 6390495. Yes, the MFI is no longer there. Engine currently has webers. The previous owner, who is a good friend, did say that the engine has been bumped to 2.2L. I need to confirm that with Fairwinds because they did all of the work on the car while he owned it (8 years).

[Grady Clay]

terp722,
First, welcome to the Forum
You will find a lot of help here.

Great SWB find. Looks good and light.
More pictures please.


A running 1969 type 901/10 911S is very valuable to someone needing an original type engine.
Your #6390495 is the 495th out of 2126 built.
It certainly can help pay for another (non-original) engine for your ’68 coupe.

For many years I had a 2.5S and then a 2.8S MFI in my ’68 coupe.
I can tell you first hand … that is fun.

A 2.7RS with carbs is particularly suitable because it is lightweight.
This also allows continued use of a type 901 or 911 transmission – much more pleasant than a 915.

Unless you build a 3.2 with real ‘S’ cams and all the attendant necessary, it won’t have that “S” character.

I would take the ‘69S proceeds and build an engine on a 7R crankcase.
The 90 mm RS Mahle Nikasil P&Cs are readily available.
There are 92 mm RSR P&Cs that are a bit more pricy but very high CR.
The 90 mm can be carefully ‘bumped’ to about 9.3:1 CR.
Twin plugs will run best and reduce octane sensitivity.

With the Webers, a standard air filter assembly (with the back cut out), a ’68 fan housing and ‘S’ fan shroud it will appear close to original ‘S’.
210++ hp and 2.7 torque will get your attention and be very drivable.
All this in an engine that has identical weight to your present 2.0S.



Early spring 1969 just after cleaning from skiing Vail.



Note the left fingers on the four 100W H1s.

With the 2.5, I took 4th overall at the Portland Parade.

More fun to come.

Best,
Grady

[onboost]

Gabe,

Welcome to the forum & nice looking SWB. You're in good hands up there.. tell Will Pyle that Paul from MD/DC/VA says hello and see you guys at Hershey!

P~

[terp722]

Thank you for the warm welcome and kind words about the car. I'll upload a few more pictures when I get home today.

How reliable would a built 2.7 be? I wouldn't do a super high strung race build, just a nicely tuned high performance street motor. Any idea on a ballpark budget for one of these? The idea of keeping carbs is appealing because they certainly sound cool.

Grady, i noticed the tach and speedometer in your picture. Nice!

Paul, I'll definitely pass along the hello to Will next time I'm there. I spent yesterday morning eyeing up his RS.

[Grady Clay]

I think most agree that a properly built, properly cooled and well maintained carb 2.7RS is among the most long lived 911s ever.

Building an engine like this allows you to apply all that has been learned from 3½ decades of use.
There isn’t any ‘mystery’ as to how to build this engine.

It is also a very simple engine – as 911 engines go.

You can have this done professionally but it is also reasonable to DIY.

You also have the running ‘69S engine in the car so you can take your time building the replacement.


Most important it is a fun 911S engine.
It makes the SWB 911 very fast.
It has all those 7300 rpm 911S visceral inputs.


The only downside I can think of is you will need a front fender oil cooler.
That involves the under-rocker piping, the cooler (and fan) and the associated plumbing.
All this is standard 911SC/Carrera stuff, readily available (Elephant Racing).
You will need this with any larger / higher horsepower engine.
Even a 1969 2.0 911S has a big front cooler.



You also have the opportunity to slightly lighten the engine and the rear of the 911.
Anything you do here improves handling and overall performance.

There are good replica aluminum deck lids available (TRE).
You can source an aluminum license plate panel.
Your engine ‘tin’ can become FG.
You can use all the period magnesium engine parts.

With proper maintenance, your 901 transmission and SWB CV joints and handle this performance.
If you choose, you can change to a magnesium 901 transmission and loose some weight.

Everything considered – the best of Porsche and a lot of fun.

Best,
Grady

[304065]

Grady, I nominate your second photo as Photo of the Year! Very, very nice.

[jpnovak]

Welcome to the forum. You have a great looking car!

I think Grady said it best.

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

terp722,
Unless you build a 3.2 with real ‘S’ cams and all the attendant necessary, it won’t have that “S” character.

I

He brings up an excellent point. yes, you can bolt a later engine and transmission into an early car. The effect of speed and torque is magnified with the lightweight SWB chassis. However, while you go faster your experience will not be as fun.

I am not even close to being a purist but there is something to be said about the song of a 911 motor above 7K rpm. You will not have anywhere close to the same sprightly feeling when you put a later motor and 915 in the car. Gone is the high-revving, short gear fun. I have been there and done that.

I do like the 2.7 motors when built with a proper cam. I also like the snappy feel of a 2.5 built to similar degree.

The choice is up to you. The possibilities are endless. But you may want to ride in an early car with a 3.0 or 3.2 swap before making your decision.

btw, what is your name and where are you located?

[1982911SCTarga]

Grady, I nominate your second photo as Photo of the Year! Very, very nice.

I'll second that. He's hauling butt at 3:10 in the afternoon. Late for happy hour?

Brian

[pplkook]

Originally Posted by terp722

Thank you for the warm welcome and kind words about the car. I'll upload a few more pictures when I get home today.

How reliable would a built 2.7 be? I wouldn't do a super high strung race build, just a nicely tuned high performance street motor. Any idea on a ballpark budget for one of these? The idea of keeping carbs is appealing because they certainly sound cool.

Grady, i noticed the tach and speedometer in your picture. Nice!

Paul, I'll definitely pass along the hello to Will next time I'm there. I spent yesterday morning eyeing up his RS.

Terp Do what Grady said, he is probably one of the most respected, long time Porshe folks on this board. In betting terms it is a 'lock'

-Jack

[mholbrook38]

This thread has awakened the "Great Grady" so take heed. Probably one of the most respected on this board. Personally, I really like the way this car and engine looks now but it will likely look about the same with the 2.7 so go for it if your checkbook can handle the freight.

Enjoy!

[fryardds]

Hi Gabe,

You have a very nice early 911 hotrod theme going already I would highly suggest keeping the engine build/replacement in the period of the car. Two great suggestions already made would be either a 2.5L short stroke or 2.7L RS spec with higher compression.

Those will be expensive no doubt but your car doesn't have spoilers or flairs so don't go bigger than 2.7L. Also consider putting MFI on the engine too if that will fit the budget.

I wouldn't change out the trans. either to a 915. The dog-leg 901 is really fun, maybe figure out the gear ratios and consider a set of shorter gears. That will give you 'snap' with the light weight SWB car. Lots of possibilities. Be sure to post up some interior photos too.

[t6dpilot]

I really like your car the way it is. Take a look at my garage and you will know why. I agree with the good Dr. - 2.5SS. That is on my wish list....

[911s55]

Keep the little motor and drive that cool car. Your engine is already incorrect, others will be too and cost you $. If you don't like the high RPM performance/character of the engine then buy a later car, SC or Carrera. Your car has the vibe it should have, there seems to be enough altered cars already to choose from.
David

[terp722]

Thank you all for the input. My name is Gabe and I am in southern NJ (near Philadelphia).

I like thought of doing a 2.5 or 2.7 build. I hope this isn't a totally naive question, but what is the best way to collect the parts required to build one? Are there specific suppliers that you guys would recommend where I can source a majority of the components? I wouldn't tackle this by myself but my wife's uncle builds small block V8's in his sleep and he is interested in helping me put one of these together. I know small block V8's and Porsche sixes aren't in the same ballpark, so don't beat me up on that one! lol

I have attached a few more pics. One of the first things on my list is to replace the seats. I was leaning toward GTS Nurburgring seats since they look period correct but won't break the bank.

Scott, I think you have my car's big brother...

Thanks again everyone.

[kidrock]

It's an 'S'....personally, I wouldn't touch a thing. But heck, what do I know?

[911pcars]

See Bob Tilton's posts ..... and his car. It might be an interesting view.

As for your questions, a couple of books come to mind to begin the process:
Bruce Anderson's 911 Performance Handbook
Wayne Dempsey's How to Build and Modify Porsche 911 Engines

Once you digest these, ask specific questions to fill in the holes. The answers can fill up two books (see above).

Sherwood