Should I swap to a 3.2 or 3.6?... value of stock 3.0?

sempaipaul · 09:10 PM

Guys,

I am considering swapping out my factory 3.0 for a hot rodded 3.2 or 3.6 (probably 3.2 as the 3.6 is a bit out of my price range).

What I have is my 3.0 from my 1979 SC. The engine is very clean and runs well. It has right around 170K miles on it (I'd have to go outside and look to be exact). I purchased my 79 two years ago as a project since I have been wanting to do a full restoration on a 911 since I let my 87 go right before the prices for them started climbing

.

When I purchased the car I got all of the records for it dating back to the 90's and the 80's so this engine would be fully documented. I drove the car home and took it to my mechanic. We immediately did the following work out of precaution:
1. Installed carrera tensioners
2. Installed new plugs
3. Installed new gaskets on the valve covers (upper and lower)
4. removed the external oil cooler and had it sonic blasted and re-installed with new gaskets
5. Conducted a valve adjustment
and a few other minor tune up items. The engine does have the air box pop off valve - so that has been done as well.

Additionally, according to the records - at 56K miles the engine had a rebuild completed by a dealer (******** of Asheville, Inc - Porsche VW of North Carolina). The rebuild was due to the of conducting some valve work and it appears as the following was completed at that time:
1. replacement of all rings
2. replacement of all valves
3. replacement of all rockers
4. replaced all valves
5. some other stuff that I can't read from the ticket as it is old school hand written.

The parts list for this rebuild was an all inclusive of $2,500. The rebuild itself was right around $4K for labor.

In any sense - with all of the above said, what do you guys believe I could anticipate getting/asking for the SC engine? assuming all compression and leak down tests are good (which I can't imagine they wouldn't be since it has run pretty strong). I see these things go for as high as $10K...

Look forward to some feedback on whether I should truly consider doing this or stick to my 3.0.

Regards,
Paul

Jcslocum · 07-02-2015, 03:46 AM

The 3.0 is a very solid engine and maybe for values sake, keep it with the car and build it into a 3.2 for a little bit more pep. Do some research into the 3.0 from a 3.0 and the make a very nice 3.2 short stroke engine that is really a fun driver. A buddy just took apart a 3.0 with I think close to 190K miles on it and the bearings looked near new! He had to split the case of have some broken head studs EDM's out. I was shocked how nice the bearings were.

Flat6pac · 07-02-2015, 05:04 AM

I've seen gorgeous bearings at 300k miles. Maintenance is the answer.
Bruce

Sicklyscott · 07-02-2015, 05:19 AM

I know you didn't ask for this advice but oh well.... I don't think an upgrade to a 3.2 motor is really worth it the hassle. I get the 3.6 but the 3.2 is in my mind such a marginal improvement that it negates the cost and work not to mention non-matching numbers.

As posted above I'd either do a 3.2 short stroke (3.2ss) motor with some nice goodies or the full 3.6 conversion. For my '80 I'm leaning towards the 3.2ss due to cost, weight, and transmission concerns.

darrin · 07-02-2015, 05:54 AM

does your SC need to be emission tested? If you're not ready to drop the $$$ on a 3.2ss rebuild, you might also consider more incremental upgrades, such as switching to a SSI exhaust (which I understand gives the 3.0 a nice midrange boost) and otherwise getting it completely dialed in.

sempaipaul · 07-02-2015, 06:03 AM

Thanks, guys. What do you think my motor is worth?

Regards,
Paul

Charles Freeborn · Charles Freeborn's Garage

A solid 3 Liter goes for $7500 give or take a grand, or two

ninesixfour · 07-02-2015, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sicklyscott

I know you didn't ask for this advice but oh well.... I don't think an upgrade to a 3.2 motor is really worth it the hassle. I get the 3.6 but the 3.2 is in my mind such a marginal improvement that it negates the cost and work not to mention non-matching numbers.

As posted above I'd either do a 3.2 short stroke (3.2ss) motor with some nice goodies or the full 3.6 conversion. For my '80 I'm leaning towards the 3.2ss due to cost, weight, and transmission concerns.

What about a Euro 3.2? That would be a pretty big bump from a stock SC, about 50hp, and that's bone stock. With carbs or some other tricks it could be even more.

PMNorris · 07-02-2015, 11:34 AM

I put a 79 3.0SC engine in my 70T. I put PMO's, MSD and SSI's on it. Its going very well, but is due for a top end overhaul. Whilst i'm in there i plan to put some 3.0 RS spec pistons in, so i should get 230+ hp out of it. In theory i should put S spec cams in too, but i think i'll leave them stock as the engine already revs well and howls and the top end.

sempaipaul · 07-02-2015, 12:51 PM

Understood. Well what I am looking at is a mid 80's 3.2 which has been rebuilt in 2009 and has 10K miles on it. It was rebuilt with 964 cams and a corresponding chip as well - so, apparently pushes about 240ish horses, which would be a bump up from the existing 180ish. I am just not sure how much this is worth as a cost/benefit trade off considering yes, this would be the upgraded and more powerful engine - however, the car would no longer be matching numbers, and I can't just afford to keep the stocker sitting around.

I also was thinking of replacing the clutch and having the guy go through the tranny and replace/refresh anything on an as needed basis.

So with that - I am wrestling with the thought of spending say 13K on an engine swap for a 3.2 which is a fairly fresh 10K mile 2009 rebuild + an additional ~2K on a tranny/clutch refresh - however, having to sell my existing 3.0 to fund a bit more than half of the project.

Having that 3.2 in there and a fresh tranny and all - I am comparing that upgrade investment vs. the fact of having matching numbers if I am to re-sell the car. The power is surely worth it - but say I go to sell it --- would the 3.2 and tranny refresh be appreciated more? or, would a matching numbers 3.0 be appreciated more?

Thanks,
Paul

darrin · 07-02-2015, 01:17 PM

While a fresh 3.2 is nice, I'm skeptical that switching to 964 cams and a chip is going to give a 33hp bump over a stock 3.2 @ 207hp. If you're not having any issues with your 3.0, why not refresh your tranny/clutch, upgrade the exhaust and optimize distributor advance (googling around suggests that these mods would provide a 20+ hp gain and a nice midrange performance) and start saving up for a rebuild / further upgrade to your engine.

Sicklyscott · 07-02-2015, 03:16 PM

What condition is the rest of the car in? Paint? Interior? Anything original and "mint"?

If you have lots of original parts and low mileage then matching numbers is worth something. How much depends on the case and when and where you plan to sell it. Like I said earlier a 3.2 is a marginal upgrade compared to a 3.6. I don't think the 3.2 will hurt the value much but it certainly won't help it much either. The 3.6 I could see some value added.

But again a well tuned 3.0 with SSI and a well tuned CIS system / ignition system can be quite fun. For 6k in parts you can probably do a decent 3.2 SS with about the same power as the 3.2 you're looking at while keeping your matching numbers.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

You are talking about a 25 year old engine with 170K miles with a documented top end rebuild with about 120K miles. I would not expect top dollar as many would consider it just a rebuild candidate.

That said, to answer your investment question, In an SC, I would prefer a numbers matching 3.0 for an investment while the 3.2 might be a better driver. Assuming that you would just install a used 3.2, that engine would still be a risk as it would likely be high mileage as well. Better off to rebuild your 3.0 if necessary.

rennch · rennch's Garage

I just sold my 79 3.0 and bought a 3.6 ...

COLB · COLB's Garage

IF the rest of your car is in pretty good nick, it is worth $25-27k as it sits.

Add $13k and you are sitting at ~$40k invested; subtract ~$7500 for selling the 3.0 and you are at ~$32k.

For a car that is still worth $25-27k, with reduced potential for appreciation.

No one is going to pay a premium for a SC with a 3.2 in it -- because when you get up around the number you will have into it, you can buy a decent, matching number Carrera -- with fewer miles, and more upside.

If a buyer wants a hot rod, most are going to want a full-up hotrod -- not a stocker SC with a 3.2 dropped in it.

If you want to build a hot rod -- then do it, and don't look back. But if you are concerned about the financial implications, realize that it is pretty much impossible to recoup your costs in modifying a Porsche.