What do you think

[Ratcals]

I'm stationed over here in Germany and I just came across a 1977 911. I've given the car a visual inspection today and for being 25 years old it appears to be in pretty damn good shape. I'm taking it for a test drive tomorrow. Here are some of my concerns:
First off it's Euro Spec. However, because of its age I should be able to get it into the states without any modifications. Does that sound right? What are some of the things I should look for as far as potential major problems? The guy was originally asking $13,500 but has dropped once to $12,500 and now to $10,500. He's going back to the states in January and moving to Rhode Island and that's why he's selling it. I'd really appreciate any inputs/comments or suggestions the 911 gurus might have. Besides I figure it's time to move up from my 944 toy.

Mark

[dickster]

i don't know about importing cause i live in uk!

from my limited knowledge/experience you should look at history. being german it should have good records (invoices not just stamped book). this will show if any work will need to be done depending on mileage.

on a visual inspection you can get a feel for the car. you say you've done this so i would include looking for rust at jacking points , fuel filler, front of luggage compartment (lift carpert in this compartment and there should be no rust staining), behind rear lights. look under carpets inside car - this gives good indication of condition (no leaks).

if the car smokes on overrun/intitial start up potential top end work. oil should be nice and clean (not brown).

check for oil leaks.

check operation of gearbox, etc.

get a leak down/compression test done.

it helps if you've driven other 911's of similar vintage to compare. if you're stiil unsure get someone else to look at it.


hope thats of some help.

richard

[davis911s]

Mark

In addition to what Richard mentioned, Since it a 2.7 see if it has any of the mods done to it. Cam ternsioners, pop-off valve, exhaust (diff in euro specs?), also see if he has records of the work that has been done to the car.

It sounds like he is Military also, there may be a reason he is not bringing it back himself. (Rhode Island has roads )

Like Richard says "check for rust" if there is rust I would walk away.

Shawn

It sounds like a fair car at a fair price, but being in Germany you have a HUGE selection of 911s to choose from.

Just try to search for 911s at www.mobile.de

[Ratcals]

Thanks guys. As I said an exterior inspection didn't reveal any rust. The guy is a civilian and the car was primarily his wife's. He's more of an SUV guy and decided a 911 wasn't the best car for Rhode Island. The car has 215,000 kilometers (~130K miles). If he lets me I do plan on taking it to a couple of German mechanics who work on my 944 I trust. They did the pre-inspection for the last two I owned and they did me right both times. I still welcome anymore advice. Thanks and I'll keep you posted.

Mark

[Rot 911]

Hey Ratcals, I used to be stationed in Heidelberg and made it over to K-Town a few times. I think you might be wrong on being able to ship the car back to the states without modifications. The two big problems you might have are the older german cars did not meet US specs for the safety glass (and I am not sure when they made the change that did meet specs) and the pollution control, or lack of. You need to find out what the requirements are in order to ship or you might find yourself having to post a bond on the car when it gets to the states and having the car impounded until you get it up to spec.

[pohsche]

As a owner of a 1977 Euro Carrera 3.0, I can attest for what Kurt V. said about the glass. Arizona definitely checked for safety glass. The other concern is emissions compatibility. If it is a 3.0, try to figure a way to get it done, They are worth it.

Al

[Ratcals]

Hmm, I thought 25 years was the magic number when it no longer had to meet US safety specs. How old was your 1977 911 when you brought it into the US? I won't be leaving here until 2004 at the earliest. As I said I already own a 944, but because I can't keep it I don't want to put any money into it. Perhaps I should just be patient (something I'm sure none of us do) and wait for a US spec one in good condition. BTW-It's not a 3.0L it's only 2.7.

Mark

[ebradway]

If he lets me I do plan on taking it to a couple of German mechanics who work on my 944 I trust.

If he doesn't let you take it to a mechanic for a PPI: don't walk, run away from the deal.

There is no reason someone selling a 25 year old car for $10K+ to not let you take it to a mechanic!

[Eric Coffey]

Personally, I can't see how ANY 24 year old 2.7L 911 with 130K miles on the clock could be worth 10K, unless it was in concourse condition, or had a fresh engine. Speaking of engines, I would be very concerned about the pulling case/head stud problems associated with the magnesium 2.7's (been there, done that, not pretty!). If it hasn't been adressed already (time certs, etc.), it will probably need to be.

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

DOT isn´t a big problem on the 911, but EPA can become a issue.

Check out your Motorpool or Military Support for further informations. AFIK you still are allowed to bring back one car not full complaing to EPA/DOT if you are not going to sale it within 5 years in the US.
The last time I was in that biz most US Forces tried to get BMW Turbos, M3/M5 , Mercedes Diesel, Ferraris or other "Hot" things back home.

Best way to have moost fun is geting a 74-77 Carrera ( 2,7 or 3,0 ) or a early 930.

Grüsse

[Ratcals]

I've spoke with the Vehicle Inspection folks and they say nothing needs to be done with the car in order to bring it back to the US. In fact they do all necessary paperwork to get it in the country.
Considering how picky they are and that they are the final approval on whether it gets shipped or not I tend to put faith in their answer.

Also, Eric stated he thought 10K was a bit high. Is that the general consensus here?

Mark

[donzee]

Originally posted by Ratcals
What do you think

I think you might be interested in my 83 SC with 205 kkm. It is a great car in excellent original state. Has carrera chain tensioners and 930 style spoilers:

[IMG]D:\files\photos\SCinthemorning.jpg[/IMG]

Price: $ 12.500. I bought a 964 3.3 turbo this morning ... Today, Germany is not the best place to go 911 shopping. You get better prices gere in Holland.

The car has always slept indoors and lives in Amsterdam.

Maarten

[Ratcals]

Thanks Maarten, I can do Holland. I travel up to Tiel about every two months anyway. However, to still be able to take the car back to the US with me it can be anything newer than Feb/'79.

Mark

[pohsche]

Yes you will be able to bring it back. But can you register it in the next state where you are stationed. The DOT inspection and the emissions inspection I wrote about before was 2 years ago. And that was bringing it in from New York were it had been registered for 12 years. AZ was a stickler regarding the glass, bumpers and lights. I don't know if you get an exemption for being in the military. Just my experience. By the way, I lived in K-town for 3 years back in my youth(a long time ago).

[howie944]

I was stationed in Kaiserslautern (Retired from Ramstein in 94..Lived in Vogelweh). Is the Porsche dealership on B-40 (40 Mark strasse...You know why its named that!) just before the turn into K-Town still there? They might be the place to go for the pre purchase. I used to take my Bimmer to a guy named Tony who was ou the other direction on B-40 well past Enseidlerhof. I don't know how much Porsche work he does but he is a pretty good wrench. Just an aside I was there when the closed Anabella Haus and turned it from a house of ummm Ill Repute into housing for the East Germans after the wall came down! Have a Perminator for me and don't blame me for the morning after headache!

[Ratcals]

Howie,

Yes the Porsche dealer is still there. It's still called the 40 Mark Strasse but it costs more than 40 Marks now. Not sure how I know that . If you lived on Vogelweh then you'll know where Kapaun is, that's where I work. I think I'm going to bail on the idea of buying a Euro Spec car. Too many unkowns I have to worry about. Although www.mobile.de has some very nice ones within a reasonable driving distance. However, it's a potential headache I just don't want to chance.

I guess I'll go back to the 944 board until?

Mark

[Oldporsche]

Memories-Memories-Memories

I was stationed at Ramstein 69-71. I'm happy to hear the local landmarks haven't changed that much. I really didn't see very many 911's in that part of Germany.

This car sounds a little pricey even for being in absolutely perfect shape. I think you could look around and find something, possibly unique, (3.0L ) that could be imported with little or no headaches.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[Eric Coffey]

I wouldn't give up just yet. Actually, If I was in the market for an older car, in most cases I would PREFER a Euro model car. For instance, you might consider looking for a Euro 1974 to 1975 2.7L Carrera. These cars are basically updated version of the earlier 1973 911 Carrera RS, with the RS-spec engines. The `74-`75 2.7L Carrera's that were sent to the states are completely different (CIS), a lot more tame, and certainly not "RS spec".

[howie944]

Hey just a couple of other bits of memories for ya. Yeah I know where Kapun is... NCO Leadership school there...Shopette great place for beer. Have a lady that works with me that used to be a member of the 569 US Forces Police. Lived on Kapun. Told me either graveyard Gertie or Mortuary Mary had passed away...Damn shame they were landmarks! (know you'll get a grin out of mention of those two names!) I worked in OPS for the 86 SPS. By the way go to "Fred's on Ramstein and get some fried chicken. Man is that stuff good...Better than Popeyes!