OK Twinspool, just drop the checkbook, step away from the 77, and lets talk about this.............
Here's the equasion:
270K miles + 1977 mag case 2.7 + less than perfect history & records + first Porsche + starting married life = big trouble!

You are in one of the most prolific Pcar hunting spots in the world. More Pcars per capita is CA than almost anywhere else. There are many really good cars out there at reasonable prices. You can buy a nice 3.2 carrera 84 - 86 at or close to your budget. You can buy a nice 3.0 SC for around the same numbers, maybe a little less. Be patient, and keep looking until you turn up a car with reliable history, and something less than 200K miles! 100K is OK, but lots of things are approaching their ultimate service life at 200K, and those things are expensive to replace.

Read all you can - the links that nhromyak posted are a good start. When you find a car that looks like a candidate, do not become emotionally engaged in the deal until you get a PPI. A good inspection is a way to meet up with a good local wrench, learn a lot about the Pcar, and get a solid read on the condition of your candidate. Don't buy without one!!

A nice example [SC or Carrera] will repay your search many times over - they are a blast! Take your time, use this board, and let us help you find a nice one.

rscupper --

The bottom side of your car looks better than the top side of mine!!!!

Ouch... a 84-86 Carrera for 12K :(

I've got a copy of the 5th edition, which covers cars to 1995. There's no ISBN, but the Library of Congress Card catalog Number is 81-7003. I highly recommend this book. I bought mine on ebay for $13.50 plus shipping. The only weird thing is that Zimmerman's against pop-off valves, apparently bcause he's seen too many improperly installed.

I'll concur that the 911 (up to the '89 Carrera) is very easy to work on, even with all of the knuckle scraping. :) It's one of those rare designs where you can usually work out what's what using logic.

Emanuel

$12K sounds extremely high for a car with that high mileage. Especially in that year, which is arguably the most troublesome year for the 911 in the 1965-89 range.

I would value that car more in the $4000 range, and then start increasing value with the following:

- No accidents? Add a bit
- Recent engine rebuild (past 20-30K)
- Good interior? (almost impossible with that many miles unless a lot has been replaced).

At 270K, just about everything that wears out should have been replaced by now...

-Wayne

I dont believe Twinspool said that the 1977 911S with 270K miles was for sale for 12K.

I think he said that 12K was his budget (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway, for 12K, you can get a good SC.....too low for a nice Carrera, however.


Emmanuel

Some things are worth waiting for

The SCs will be easier to find for 12K, but a good 84-86 Carrera around $12 is not impossible. Bought my 85 in November 2000 for $13K from a doctor who had already bought a new 996, and literally wanted to be sure his Carrera went to the right new owner. Given the sheer size of the Carrera population, the chances are that he could find one. Thing is you have to search and be patient.

Did not mention this in the last post, but the first 911 I found in my search was a beautiful 77S with 55K miles that was a multi concours winner [the awards came with the car], had the most comprehensive history possible [every single document from the window sticker on...], and all original parts that were replaced on the car cataloged in boxes. Belts, plugs, an alternator, ..everything except oil and filters. I loved the car, and thought I had found the perfect Porsche. It was beautiful.

My wrench [who I had never met before taking this car for a PPI] talked me right out of it, for reasons that I now understand. Took another six months of searching before I found the Carrera.

I note there is much discussion here that you can get an SC for a
reasonable sum of money. Maybe so...maybe NO.

As World Domination takes it's relentless course through the 911 ranks, fine examples of the SC will become harder and harder to find. And as the supply diminishes, the price will surely rise. SC owners know this, and we're....
Keeping the SCWDP faith!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Superman
[B]The SCWDP thing is all in good fun.
Super man? You got that right! My nominee for the greatest "funster"to ever appear on this board? SrA Leland Pate! This 23 year old kid has the right attitude!:) He gives me hope for the future of this country.........as an aside? I know you are a Liberal, and I think Reagan was possibly the best President in recent history. But I'll bet we both think Lee is A-okay. :)

No Bill!!!

The underside pic. is my car. I was just enjoying the SCWDP site won't start comment made by rscupper.

I suck at taunting.
:(

You guys are cool...

On any mustang-supra-300z-mr2-rx7 board this would have deteriorated into name calling flames...

Man, I haven't even bought a 911 yet and it's refreshing!

Thanks for the advice and hints. I've been scouring traderonline, Ebay, and pca classifieds. Any I'm missing?

I live in Chico, I saw someone was from Red Bluff... next time anyone is in the area e-mail me ahead of time and we'll have to meet over a beer sometime.

As for the 911s.. I like the SCs but have been tempted by the pre-74s with 3.0 or 3.2 swap but those are hard to find and even harder to find done right.. For what I'm doing I think the options in the SC will be nice. I'm a bit confused about the CIS system. Why is it not upgrade friendly?

Thanks again..

Ben a.k.a. Twinspool...

oh, BTW, the '77 was being sold for 10,995 with a supposed $25k in rebuild reciepts...

With a budget ceiling of $12G, I think you are looking at a really solid, clean SC w/ records, or an edgy carrera 3.2. Important point to remember: true price of car is purchase price+ amount you spend on repairs and parts in first year. You specifically state that you don't want a project, so do your research and get PPI before laying down your hard-earned cash.

That said, I have a friend, (not even really a Porsche-guy), who got one of the best 911 deals I've seen. '74 911S rebuilt by extremely reputable L.A. shop w/reciepts, clean car and quicker than snot, $5,000. Deals definitely come up on these cars because of bad rep. If rebuilt right, (BIG if), they can be fine. On the other end of scale, I have seen *****-can SC's at used Porsche car lots w/ high miles and worked on by everyone but no one good, for mid-teens. Buyer beware, ignorance is really not bliss when it comes to Porsches, but you have come to the right place. Good luck! :cool:

Buy a late SC...........It will be reliable and fun to drive. Get the most car that you can afford. The early cars are light and nimble but more maint is involved.

As you become a better driver you may want to get an early car that allows you to feel more feedback... maybe even put a larger engine in it like Jack did, so it will really fly.

Avoid the 74-77 cars, they are nothing special..... I will just leave it at that.

good luck!

Ouch! '74 to '77 cars are nothing special???
I disagree. Aside from their mag. cases and lack of wide tires and flares, I see nothing really wrong with them.
Yes, they have a bad rapp because of the stud pulling issue, and some people think they look awkward with the safety bumpers and no flares... but every year model 911 has it's quirks.

the early cars have issues with carb adjustment, MFI issues and the fact that they are thirty yr old automobiles. The 2.7s have stud pulling tendancies, the 3.0SCs don't seem to like DIlvar too much, the 3.2s have DMEs that decide to take unexpected vacations and valve guide problems, the 3.6 C/2s habe the dual mass flywheels, distributor belt problems, cylinder head leaks etc., the 993s...well .... .... .... .... they're out of my reach anyway! :)
The thing with every one of these problems is that they can be and sometimes already are, fixed.

The most important thing to do when looking for a 911 is to be very patient and picky. Documentation is almost a must because 911s are the type of car that needs to be treated well and maintained properly.

Maintainance, maintainance, maintainance... :)

The CIS system is definately not known for its ease in modification...in fact...there is very little you can do. But it is known for being very reliable and more/less, trouble free.
You will hear nothing but good things about 3.0 liter engines. They are arguably the best Porsche ever put out. Allot of people agree...Bruce Anderson for one. :)
They just don't like Dilvar headstuds!
Carreras are nice, and they are a more modern car. But I will agree with everyone that with the amount of money you are looking at spending, you would be very hard pressed to find a decent Carrera for 12K.
I think you'd be better off looking at an SC.

...course, I'm partial... :D



Now for the rest of you schmoze...

Beat it with your dead beat Carreras!
You can't convince him! No matter how hard you try! He has seen the light and wants NO PART of your weak 3.2L crap!


[Quote] You guys are cool...

On any mustang-supra-300z-mr2-rx7 board this would have deteriorated into name calling flames...

Man, I haven't even bought a 911 yet and it's refreshing!

[Quote]

Let me tell you, just becausae we don't run around speeling everything like "boyz" and "tru-killaz, G", doesn't mean we aren't hip....

"what, what...I'm hip,...I'm jiggy..."
Ah, Dr. Evil...my mentor... :D

This is one of the best boards you'll ever come across...and we have one hell of a host (Pelican) to boot.




Plus, if you think about it this way...what other type of car could you ever buy and get a cool SCWorld Domination Plot sticker!??

Think about it!
:D



Paul,... I just suck up to you because I want to drive your car!!!


Whatever you choose, we will all be here to help you fix (or break) your 911.
regards,


Leland (still in the desert)

For being closer to the more primitive Porsche feel a 2.7 is better. It's lighter, feels nimble, and is quick - in ROW spec, less so in emission strangled US spec. And has no power brakes.
If the Middle year 2.7 Carrera and 3.0 Carrera aren't "special" compared to an SC, hmmm, there's something I haven't noticed about SCs....
The thing for me with SCs is power brakes. There's no feel there compared to the 2.7 and earlier cars. It's just missing that great feeling of braking yourself as opposed to it braking for you....
Must be all that weight it needs to stop. ;)

Twinspool,
Maybe not want you want, but pre '73 Ts are quite within your price range.
Around $7 - 9k for a clean car. As with all purchases you're considering, get a PPI done.

For $12k you could find a really nice 72/73 2.4E.
That would be my personal choice. It would have the classic look and performance in a lightweight package. The added spiff is should you decide to sell it down the road it will be worth more than you bought it for. Provided it's well maintained and kept intact.


Bobby 72T Coupe
72T Roadster Project
92 MBZ 300TE

You don't shop around for very long before you notice that cars with a 2.7 usually go for dirt cheap.

Think about the reason this is, *before* you buy. Otherwise you will learn it the hard (expensive) way.

If you end up wanting an earlier car, then try to find something without a 2.7 in the engine room.

Not to kick a dead horse, please consider the weight of one of those problem '77 911s is 2464lbs with 165hp. Now with SSIs, nice duel in/duel out exhaust, and minor ignition adjustments, the hp comes in at about 180.

This results in a ratio of about 8.8 horses per 100lbs. Pretty respectable given that a stock '83 SC weighs in at 2760 with the same hp. ;)

When our dirt cheap cars need a rebuild, we can put in nice 3.6 ala Jack O, and now we have dirt cheap screamer.

BTW: Doug your car is awesome, I just looked at it for the first time.

Twinspool,

I just went through this exercise in Southern Calif. (looking for a 911, not a wife, got one of those already). The market is a little soft right now, but it still took me around 4 months to find mine, and it was pure luck that I found what I was looking for. The prices are all over the board, but take the advise of all that you have read here, take your time, and make friends with a good mechanic.

Then when you have other candidates, shoot some digital pics, post them to this board, and let all of the experienced Pelican heads take their shots. Worst case is you will learn something new.

I am not nearly as smart as many of these posters here, but a quarter of a million miles seems like a headache waiting to happen. Keep looking.


Also, one other thing I did was run the VIN's of cars I was interested in through Carfax, which will give you a basic history of the cars whereabouts (helpful to avoid mid-west rustbuckets) and any obvious mileage issues.