Convert my '77 Targa to a Cabriolet?

[Wayne 962]

Ok, if there is one thing this BBS isn't short of, it's opinions! So, I will open the floor up to everyone's opinion. I just took delivery of a 1977 911 Targa (needs rebuild on the motor, and a paint job). I'm planning on turning this car into a daily driver (possibly for me, or for the boss [wife]).

I'm thinking that this car would be a perfect candidate for a cabriolet conversion. There is a company out there that we have been talking with called RKR, and they have a pretty good Targa -> Cab conversion kit (their new version, not the cheesy one in the Tweeks catalog).

I'm thinking since it's a '77 (arguably the least valuable 911 year ever built), and a Targa (also decreasing it's value), that it wouldn't hurt the value, would make the car more fun (I'm not a huge fan of Targas - my 914 Targa is more of a 'Targa style'), and would give us a tech article and sample car for the site. Cost is not an issue here, as I (obviously) would be able to get parts pretty inexpensively.

The engine is coming out this week to be rebuilting in my new garage (pictures coming later on tonite) in my new house (one of the only four car garages in the South Bay), so I will have some time to think about it.

Actually, cost is indeed a factor - to use the factory roof would cost way too much in parts. I also have a brand new New Old Stock (NOS) Targa bar (with the Porsche sticker still on it), to weld back into the car if I ever sold it, and the next owner wanted the Targa bar back.

I suppose that I would also have to weld in some type of roll bar or cage to stiffen up the chassis, and protect the driver/passenger in a roll-over accident. Anyone have any clue as to how much the Targa bar itself stiffens the chassis? I'm not too familiar with the Targa body style.

Ok, post your opinions!

-Wayne

[BlueSkyJaunte]

In the immortal words of a really well-off ad firm:

Just Do It.

I've often given thought to this very experiment. However if this hard Targa top thing works out it'll be put off for a while.

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blue
'81 SC Targa

[TargaEuro]

If its just a typical 77 911 with no rare options I would do it. The car needs paint and engine work so you must have bought it for the right price, you dont want to put more into it than you can get back down the road when it comes time to sell. I think your wife would love to have a 911 Cab, mine sure would. Look forward to seeing the pics soon....TargaEuro

[cegerer]

OK, here's my opinion: I like Targas, not Cab's. Go figure.

[john walker's workshop]

do it, but try to find a factory top. they fit and look way better. got the last set of weld in brackets from a place called euro-tek in costa mesa. 714.549.3211. way cheaper than the factory items. i used just one aftermarket top kit, and never again. crap. pomona's coming up again, there probably will be one there.

[pbs911]

I was told that all 911 cabs before 83 (I think)were just that - chopped Targas. Do it! In fact, you would be period correct (almost).


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Paul
78SC Targa

[vjd3]

Well, Porsche introduced the 911 cab as the 1983 911SC, so any previous cab is an aftermarket conversion.

I'm not sure how the 77 911S compared to the body structure of the SC, but I think they only reinforcing added for the cabriolet was a little "shock absorber" in the engine bay to stiffen it up a little.

I also beg to differ on the fact that being a Targa it's worth less than a coupe; in the latest Excellence 74-89 911 market report, the "excellent" Targas are worth a few hundred more than the coupes. Not that I'm biased.

Vic
88 Carrera (Targa, and for sale, and yes, it's even on Ebay.)

[Wayne 962]

I had a '73 Targa that I had a hard time selling, because everyone seemed to want a coupe! That's where I base that opinion, plus most people I speak to agree with me. I think that there's more people looking for coupes than targas.

Anyone know about the chassis reinforcement of the cabriolets?

-Wayne

[vjd3]

Good point ... I think Targas are more popular with first-time 911 owners and in certain climates. The performance guys and track guys gravitate toward the coupes for obvious reasons. I've had four Targas and four coupes; I love my Targa here in Boston (great Targa climate), but I want (need) another 930 (coupe).

Vic

[This message has been edited by vjd3 (edited 07-10-2001).]

[epbrown]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts:
Anyone know about the chassis reinforcement of the cabriolets?
-Wayne

Porsches or the RKR guys? IIRC, Porsche stiffened up the floors to reduce flex of the body, same as the Targa - that's why the cabs and targas have smaller footwells, something I didn't learn about until I bought mine and discovered my size 15 feet were tripping over each other!

For RKR: I watched them convert a yellow '77 from targa to cab at the Tweeks rally last year (it took about an hour and a half for two guys, they estimated 4 hours for a first-timer. They bolted in a bar across the rear seats, mounted to the chassis below where the targa hoop used to be.

Though I think they're optimistic when they claim that a cab conversion will actually increase value, I don't think it would hurt the value of a mid-70s 911.

Emanuel

[radcon]

I agree with the comment that the first cabs started out as targas, or at least were built on the same platform as targas. I have seen a few copies of a supposed Porsche factory manual that deals with the conversion of targas into cabs. I have seen a few advertised on e-bay and other sites. You may want to acquire one so you can see what type of structural modifications are recommended by Porsche. Just an idea.

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'80 Targa

[Jack Olsen]

My vote goes for a rag top. This is Los Angeles, fer gosh sakes.

I'm always puzzled by the fact that -- in lists of 911 resale values -- Targas are considered more valuable than coupes. I think your difficulty selling the early car probably confirms that the people on this board (and 911 enthusiasts in general) are a distinct subset of even the general Porsche-owning population, with a subtly distinct agenda when it comes to these cars. The guys you see on this board often think about building a car from the ground up, and taking a 911 to the track is often an important part of that. While a Targa doesn't preclude tracking a 911, it does mean the car will have a weaker chassis, all other things being equal.

The car you were selling was an ideal candidate for a track car -- except for that darn Targa top on it.

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Jack Olsen
My Rennlist home page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 07-10-2001).]

[Greg-slant/cab]

Wayne,
As an owner of a conversion that was done right, I would also say go for it. If done right you will have no problems with it. My only advice would be to stick with a manual top. I have a power top and if one component, out of many, goes out your top will not work. To me the power top is a waste. You still have to stop the car, unzip the window, put the top down and attach the boot. No advantage in my opinion. Once the rear window is out you will find the targa bar has no real structural value. I have a copy of the actual Porsche publication for the conversion. Publication #WKD 451 620. It even has a parts list for the conversion. I was told Porsche sold these until they started the cabs in 1983. I think it would make a great Tech article. As far as the top goes I think I would try to find a used OEM one

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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

[poorsche]

How about something like this:

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

The convertible has only changed B pillar posts and some othe sheetmetall to make the roof fit & work. The Targa B Pillar is to weak to suport the seat belt point on the inner sheetmetall.

Just visit your next Porsche dealer and get the B-Pillar sheet metall with the upper seat belt anchor.

Grüsse

[Wayne 962]

Good point about the seat belt - I wonder what the RKR guys recommend for that one. I'll have to check their video that they sent me.

As for the conversion instructions, can you scan them and send them to me? I will post them on the site so everyone can see. I have about 400-500 lbs of Porsche books, but I don't ever remember seeing anything like that one...

-Wayne

[SteveStromberg]

I was involed in the conversion of over a do
zen 911 to Cabs. The Targa already has the stiffener in the door thresholds we would weld these peices in on coupes BEFORE we cut the roof off. The seat belt supports and top support/pivot points are weled in behind the door post. You can convert you car WITHOUT respraying the paint If you use a TIG and plenty of Heat Fence. Buy a Factory Top Frame Althouhg I built the top frame work are selves from a jig that was made from a Factory top, I made every peice that went into the framework. It is a faily easy job to put the Cab top in and it can be done in about Twenty hours if you start with a targa, coupes are much more difficult as you have to change the windshield header we made a jig for that to make sure it was true. Steve

[This message has been edited by SteveStromberg (edited 07-11-2001).]

[David Griswold]

I would also do the conversion.

I converted a 77 Targa to a cab using a 993 cab top. If you stick with an early (non-roller latch guide top, you will not need to change the winshield header). I purchased new inner quarters and seat belt brackets to ensure that the conversion was done correctly.

The conversion using factory parts is very straight forward.

The car was very solid with little body flex or noise. I would have no reservation about doing it again.

Within the last week, I saw a post somewhere from someone selling a 993 cab top and a manual top for a pretty reasonable price...

I have many pictures of the conversion if interested.

David

[old_skul]

Go for it, Wayne. I track my Targa but my eventual goal is to be on the track in a Coupe. I'll have to install racing seats to do it - my frame won't fit into a coupe with a helmet on.

Targas and Cabs are 911s for enjoyment. You can track them, but not competitively, I don't think. Also: I have heard that the rollbar on a Targa adds significantly to torsional twisting resistance.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP
The Porsche Owners Gallery

[83 sc euro cab]

isnt easier just to get rid of the 77 and buy a 83 cabriolet?

I dont get it...