74 911S questions

[77carrerabt]

So aside from the Fuel distributor problems what should I expect from the 2.7 engine. I was told it was rebuilt etc, it does have up graded chain tentioners but my question is more on the starting and driveability of the car. Does this engine come with a cold start valve, AA valve, deceleration valve, thermotime switch, etc? When the car is cold and I first turn the ignition on where should i expect the idle to be at? Should I have to use the choke and if so how much should the choke raise the idle? How long should the choke be used and after raising the rpms should the idle come down quickly and bounce below the 800 and then come up to 950 or should it come down perfectly to 950-1000 rpm?
The car has a brand new Permatune on it so what spark plugs should I use and what gap should I gap them at? I was told you can (and should) open the gap to nearly .055. I was also told the points no longer need to be adjusted because of the permatune. Is there anything on the fuel injection system that is not needed perhaps that was used for smog? The car has SSI's on it and back dated heating.
The reason I ask is this,
I met this guy who just got his 83 SC back after a complete rebuild and he takes me over to his car leans in through the window and turns the ignition over and the car just jumps to life. Perfect idle!!! He jumps on the throttle a couple times and then lets it go the car comes down to a beautiful smooth idle and then just purrs. Should I expect this of my 74 or not? Thanks for your input and time.

[prebordao]

If perfectly in shape, a 74 shouldn't be more difficult to start than an 83.
It already has a cold start valve, decel valve, thermotime, but... not an AAR which would regulate cold idle. Instead it has a manual throttle (not a choke) that you have to pull for cold starts and later push down.
It might require some learning...

[stlrj]

Originally Posted by prebordao

a 74 shouldn't be more difficult to start than an 83.

But don't expect it to start and automatically come to a smooth idle like an 83 with all the modern warm up devices. The 74 needs to be manipulated and coaxed to life with the hand throttle, the old fashioned way.

Cheers,

Joe

[stlrj]

Originally Posted by 77carrerabt

The car has a brand new Permatune on it so what spark plugs should I use and what gap should I gap them at? I was told you can (and should) open the gap to nearly .055.

0.055" plug gap? Now you're dealing in the high energy ignition range which is beyond the capabilities of your stock cap, rotor and ignition cables that are not HEI rated. From my experience, it would be a waste of time unless you upgraded to HEI components.

Cheers,

Joe
74 911 w/86 3.2

[JeremyD]

You have to pull up the hand throttle and keep it there (with a high idle) until the engine gets into operating range - 140-180 F then lower your hand throttle and it should settle into a nice idle.

get a 3.2 if you just want to start the car and forget.

[77carrerabt]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

You have to pull up the hand throttle and keep it there (with a high idle) until the engine gets into operating range - 140-180 F then lower your hand throttle and it should settle into a nice idle.

get a 3.2 if you just want to start the car and forget.

With the hand throttle pulled up, what should the idle be? 1200 rpm 1700 rpm?

[JeremyD]

mine is closer to 2000 - so maybe 1900-2000 rpms. After it's warm - it settles to around 900

[77carrerabt]

Originally Posted by stlrj

0.055" plug gap? Now you're dealing in the high energy ignition range which is beyond the capabilities of your stock cap, rotor and ignition cables that are not HEI rated. From my experience, it would be a waste of time unless you upgraded to HEI components.

If .055 is too much then what should they be gapped at?
What are HEI components?

[Walter_Middie]

So aside from the Fuel distributor problems what should I expect from the 2.7 engine? Is there anything on the fuel injection system that is not needed perhaps that was used for smog?

FUEL INJECTION:
You should not have to do anything to your fuel injection. If it is working, I wouldn’t mess with it. Problems usually occur when you get a vacuum leak. This will cause the engine to run lean at idle, and OK at higher RPMs. Most mechanics will richen up the mixture, getting the idle OK – but then the car runs rich all higher RPMs.

Does this engine come with a cold start valve, AA valve, deceleration valve, thermotime switch, etc?
where should I expect the idle to be at?
Should I have to use the choke and if so how much
How long should the choke be used

THE HAND THROTTLE:
As Prebordao says - It already has a cold start valve, decel valve, thermotime (and a WUR), but... not an AAR which would regulate cold idle. Instead it has a manual throttle (not a choke) that you have to pull for cold starts and later push down.

The hand throttle should be pulled up every time you start the car, hot or cold. The idle speed is regulated by you – not an automatic system. When I start my car cold, I pull the hand throttle up most of the way, turn the key and the car fires almost immediately. I adjust the idle to about 1500 RPM and begin to drive the car easily for a few minutes (I never let it idle to warm up). As the engine warms up, the idle will raise and I’ll slowly bring the hand throttle down. It may be several minutes before the hand throttle is completely down. Once warmed up, the idle should not dip below 950 or hunt – it should be fairly solid. But remember that while the engine is cold, the Warm Up Regulator (WUR) will be adding more fuel, and you can get some dip in the idle. If its cold outside – like in the winter – this can last for a while depending on what kind of driving you are doing.

what spark plugs should I use and what gap should I gap them at?

I use NGK BP7ES gapped to the stock 0.028”. As stlrj says, without a complete high energy ignition system, opening the plug gap too much will cause problems such as the rotor melting or the coil lead melting.

I hope you enjoy your car as much as I have enjoyed mine.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by 77carrerabt

So aside from the Fuel distributor problems what should I expect from the 2.7 engine. I was told it was rebuilt etc, it does have up graded chain tentioners but my question is more on the starting and driveability of the car. Does this engine come with a cold start valve, AA valve, deceleration valve, thermotime switch, etc? When the car is cold and I first turn the ignition on where should i expect the idle to be at? Should I have to use the choke and if so how much should the choke raise the idle? How long should the choke be used and after raising the rpms should the idle come down quickly and bounce below the 800 and then come up to 950 or should it come down perfectly to 950-1000 rpm?
The car has a brand new Permatune on it so what spark plugs should I use and what gap should I gap them at? I was told you can (and should) open the gap to nearly .055. I was also told the points no longer need to be adjusted because of the permatune. Is there anything on the fuel injection system that is not needed perhaps that was used for smog? The car has SSI's on it and back dated heating.
The reason I ask is this,
I met this guy who just got his 83 SC back after a complete rebuild and he takes me over to his car leans in through the window and turns the ignition over and the car just jumps to life. Perfect idle!!! He jumps on the throttle a couple times and then lets it go the car comes down to a beautiful smooth idle and then just purrs. Should I expect this of my 74 or not? Thanks for your input and time.

1. Your car has a cold start valve, deceleration valve, thermotime switch. It also has a micro switch on the throttle body that activates the cold start valve when you pull up on the throttle lever.

2. You should use the throttle lever on a cold start by pulling it up all the way.

3. Once warm, the deceleration valve should stabilize the drop in rpm to a smooth idle, though if sitting at idle with the throttle pulled up and you suddenly push it down, the idle may drop rapidly then stabilize.

4. CDI ignition (Permatune in your case) greatly increases the life of points but that does not mean they will not need to be periodically checked for proper gap.

5. 74's came with a smog pump and exhaust gas recirculation system, I believe. Both are innocuous as far as hp goes and are likely gone if the engine has had modifications.

If your car is warmed up and the CIS is properly functioning, you can do the same as your friend with his 83. One thing you will soon find out is the CIS is very sensitive to air leaks yet will still function fairly well up to a point, at which you will notice obvious problems. Any older CIS system of unknown condition can be suspect yet, in most cases, any problems are easily solved with relatively minor expense--if you know the cause. That's where this forum is worth its weight in gold!

[boyt911sc]

Miguel,

Your car should start after the first attempt even in dead winter. Regardless if it is a CIS, carb, EFI, or even a diesel, etc. Maybe after a second try if the car was not started for a while. But in most cases, I consider a properly maintained engine to come to live instantenously everytime you start it. My '73 VW bug starts all the time as long as the battery is fully charged. So you would expect this to a Porsche 911 too!!!!! If you can not achieve this 'start' all the time, there's something you have to look for that causing this failure.

Mickey356's car was here at home for several weeks and it started all the time when the temperature was below 20°F. I picked up my '78SC in CT last week and it started the first time after storing it for months. If the car is properly sorted, it would start all the time like any ordinary car. There is no secret to this, you could have a car like ours!!!!!

Tony

[fintstone]

A cold '74 will not start unless you pull up the throttle lever...or hold down the gas pedal.