Suspension Advice needed

[gtihop]

Hi
I have an 83 SC, about 95 k on it with mostly the original suspension (bilstein struts/shocks). I'm replacing the a arm bushings (elephant racing rubber) installing turbo tie rods, strut mounts, etc. The car is only street driven, never any track use. Should I be installing Biltein HD or Sports on both the front and rear? I dont want anything too harsh for a ride. Also as far as torsion bar upgrade, any suggestions for sizes?
thanks.

[Zeke]

2 different questions. If you up the bars, you should do performance shocks. If you want a nice street ride (remember, a 911 is pretty damn good stock), don't over dampen the suspension. It will become a harsh ride. Koni adjustables make a nice addition to a basically stock set up.

I think I hit a sweet spot using the Konis. Old pic of a car long gone to Europe:

[RWebb]

Bilstein might just revalve the ones you have - call them with your info (one guy there & it's been posted before) after you decide what t-bars to use

[911st]

Why do you want to replace the shocks or put stiffer springs on if it is street driven?

What do you consider harsh?

The 86 911 had 25mm rear torsion bars and 22/21 sways which would be a small step up from your 24mm torsion bar and 21/18 sways.

22/28 torsion bars are a street-able and fun on the track set up. Usually this is where most go.

[Chuck Moreland]

Since you are asking about larger torsion bars, I assume you want to reduce body roll, squat and dive.

Ride quality is subjective, but -

21/27 is good balance for an SC and provides a nice street-oriented upgrade to control. When paired with bilstein HDs provides a ride that most enthusiasts would find very suitable on the street.

22/28 or 22/29 with sports is also a nice combo albeit noticably firmer - yet still streetable. Your wife might disagree.

Stiffer than this and most will find it too much for the street except for occasional use, sporting purpose cars.

[RoninLB]

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

21/27 is good balance for an SC and provides a nice street-oriented upgrade to control. When paired with bilstein HDs provides a ride that most enthusiasts would find very suitable on the street.

It's perfect for my heavy ride. Great control and confidence in any crap interstates can throw at you at speed. It's never sloppy nor irriating hard to spend all day on. Add good bushings & summer only tires and the car becomes a go-cart.

[euro911sc]

You may consider keeping it all stock. You are replacing the 30 year old crap that makes the current susp. just not work right. After you replace all the crapyou will return the car back to almost new performance and that may be enough for you. Lower to euro height or a little lower and see how you like it.

However, if your car is like mine, I found that the front t-bars were so rusted that they were not to be used again. I was replacing them anyway, but in your case you may not be and run into the need. Used SC/Carrera t-bars in good to mint condition can be had for very little $$ in the Classifieds here. I have a set of rears in mint cond. FS now. <-- shameless sales plug

For your street car I would suggest to following list of replacements:

Front:
A-Arm bushings
Turbo tie rods

Rear:
Spring plate bushings

Note, I would not recommend going to monoball strut tops or rear trailing arm mounts. If you want to do the Low Friction mount kit on the front A-Arm you can, but IMHO not needed for a street car. I have it on my track rat though. I just pressed out the stock top shock bushings on my car and they were in great shape so I would assume yours are as well.

Now... if you want to move toward a sports purpose car... that's a slightly different thing, but you are doing the hard part now. With an all new bushing setup moving in that direction will be a LOT easier in the future if you choose to do so.

Best regards,

Michael

[gtihop]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm mainly looking to make the car drive better. The car handles poorly in its current state. I have a 91 GTI with bilstein sports and sport springs and it will drive circles around the 911 in any situation. I'll start by taking it apart and see what is worn out, it may end up going into new torsion bars, struts, etc. I don't mind a firm ride, but not something that kills your kidneys over our great roads.
I'll keep updates as I go forward with this!

[gtihop]

Update so far...
Got the front end apart...Hmmm
The front T bars are rusted and have a groove worn in them from rubbing..
Control arm bushings are worn off center on the rear bushing, and there is slight play in the strut between the insert and the housing.(very slight but noticeable).
As mentioned above, maybe 21/27 T bars, new ER rubber bushings in the front end, (rear were done last year), turbo tie rod kit, and it looks like Bilstein HD on all 4 corners. I just hope that this will make a nice streetable car that won't be too harsh!

[Chuck Moreland]

Originally Posted by gtihop

Update so far...
Got the front end apart...Hmmm
The front T bars are rusted and have a groove worn in them from rubbing..
Control arm bushings are worn off center on the rear bushing, and there is slight play in the strut between the insert and the housing.(very slight but noticeable).
As mentioned above, maybe 21/27 T bars, new ER rubber bushings in the front end, (rear were done last year), turbo tie rod kit, and it looks like Bilstein HD on all 4 corners. I just hope that this will make a nice streetable car that won't be too harsh!

The damage to the front tbars is typical for cars that still have original bushings.

The 21/27 HD combo will provide a nice street car that corners flatter and feels much more controlled than stock.

[stlrj]

[QUOTE=gtihop;5712698] The car is only street driven, never any track use. Should I be installing Biltein HD or Sports on both the front and rear? I dont want anything too harsh for a ride. QUOTE]

Then I would leave it alone. It's not that easy to improve the way they came from the factory and much easier to screw them up.

When was the last time it was aligned?

[gtihop]

[/QUOTE]Then I would leave it alone. It's not that easy to improve the way they came from the factory and much easier to screw them up.

When was the last time it was aligned?[/QUOTE]

It was aligned last summer..I agree it's easy to screw up, that's why we ask questions from the experts that deal with this everyday so we can get the results that we're looking for.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by gtihop

It was aligned last summer..I agree it's easy to screw up, that's why we ask questions from the experts that deal with this everyday so we can get the results that we're looking for.

It was aligned using completely worn out suspension bushings. I would keep it 100% stock except for the upgraded ER bushings and HD shocks. Replace all the sway bushings also. I've driven stock SC's on the track at speed and they are unbelievably good as they came from the factory. You talk about street driving and a VW "running circles" around the SC, my advice would be to take your "circle running" to a race track (PCA DE with an instructor) and learn to drive your Porsche properly after updating the suspension. If that was your intention I would say to upgrade the torsions (slightly, maybe 22/28), go with Bilstein Sports, and have some fun.

After a PM pointing out my "attitude" I should clarify a bit it seems. I have 0 respect for driving at speed on the public road, and I believe that may have come through in my comments. I have become a PCA National Instructor over the last couple years and I see the look of astonishment on student's faces that 1st day on the track, astonished at what they think they knew was right and isn't. GTIhop wasn't talking about street racing so to him I apologize. That said, I advise any and all that have not been to the track and that want to learn to drive their car well to do so. Even 1 weekend invested will wake you up to the real beauty of these cars.

[stlrj]

I agree it's easy to screw up, that's why we ask questions from the experts that deal with this everyday so we can get the results that we're looking for.[/QUOTE]

Just remember, the true experts that deal with this everyday were at the factory.

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by GaryR

That said, I advise any and all that have not been to the track and that want to learn to drive their car well to do so. Even 1 weekend invested will wake you up to the real beauty of these cars.

That will be the present to myself once I am done replacing the worn out suspensions and brakes. Nothing beats track time with a professional instructor.

[Hodgey]

Originally Posted by zippy_gg

That will be the present to myself once I am done replacing the worn out suspensions and brakes. Nothing beats track time with a professional instructor.

You and I are on the same journey path!!! I am looking at what to change on my suspension, trying to go for the stock set up, probably ER spring plate bushings and A arms, TTR's and then an alignment (all of which just HAS to be done before DE at Barbers in March......8 more big sleeps until registration!!!!!!!)