how can i make my SC roar
 

how can i make the SC sound great?
what improvements can i make with out a full s/s exhust

can i squeeze a little more out of her performance:D

I have a 1985 Carrera, I'm very happy with my stock muffler modified with a new exhaust pipe welded to the right side. It sounds good and there is a noticeable increase in power coming in at about 4000 rpm. On a USA Carrera, a modified twin pipe exhaust coupled with a a Euro pre-muffler gives about 12 -15 hp additional ( per B. Anderson). For details, see my earlier posts on this subject on this website. In the USA the muffler mod cost me $200, but some have had it done for less than $100. Cheap way to get some good sound and a bit more HP. I don't understand why so many people here in the US go to expensive aftermarket mufflers and SSI setup on a Carrera. You can achieve nearly the same HP increase with modified stock muffer (dual outlet) and Euro pre-muffler. On a SC the results may be a slightly different but I doubt if the aftermkt muffler + SSI is cost efficient. Lot of additional money for a bit more HP. Convert your stock muffler to a dual outlet and see what happens, you might be pleased.

Knock the stuffing out of your cat and hang on a Bursh Carrera muffler.:D

From all I've read, it sounds like the SSIs are necessary for power gain on an SC. On an SC, I doubt that the muffler change alone would increase power much.

I will agree that knocking the stuffing out of your CAT will improve the sound. It gave my car that deep, hollow 'big block' sound. Particularly at idle. Sounded pretty serious. It did not improve noise or volume at higher RPMs though.

Over the past 18 years I have owned both a 1977 911 (3 yrs) and a Carrera (15 yrs), and I think the stock muffler is not only wimpy sounding but also very, very restrictive. With the exception of the Bursch (a loud low quality muffler that will soon rust away), aftermarket SS mufflers are very expensive. I urge an SC or Carrera owner to modify the existing stock muffler with a dual outlet. It is cheap, and you will hear the difference, and if you are really atune with your automobile you will also feel it. YOU DON'T NEED TO SPEND BIG BUCKS ON A FANCY MUFFLER. On the SC I agree the SSI heat exchangers will gain more HP than on a Carrera, but you pay a lot for those horses. Paying big bucks for a aftermarket muffer is a waste of money and SSI heat exchangers add to the pain. The way to go is modified stock muffler, combined with cat bypass or euro pre-muffler, and in my humble opinion I think that is true for an SC or Carrera.

Oh come on, live a little. Get a set of Jerry Woods' headers and mate them up to a pair of megaphones!:D :D :D

Well, I'm keen to make one of these up...

http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...te_muffler.jpg

I'm now just looking for a Euro pre-muffler to butcher and modify. Image courtesy of Emcon5. He had one previously installed on his SC and said it sounded mean. He even posted an MP3 of it on a recent thread.

I'm going to be attempting the "Flowmaster Special" conversion when I get home.

The parts are all waiting for me... and I only spent $170 for the muffler, two J pipes and a set of SS Borla tips..... we'll see...

You can always put a SCWDP sticker on your car. I hear it makes your car go faster. Since im no longer a lurker...i can say stuff like that.

Dannov, I couldn't agree more. There is one more way to peel this onion, though. I gutted my stock mufler and replaced the long internal pipe and packing with two baffles, maintaining the single outlet. Also I'm running a test pipe in place of the cat. I'll add a pre-muffler this spring only because it's still a little loud. At idle it sounds like a turbo and at 5000 rpm sounds like a serious race car.
Whatever you do, don't gut your cat and use it. It'll knock off about 10 HP. Also, don't buy SSIs unless you hit the lottery. In spite of what people say who have them, they don't provide hardly any more HP than a bypass pipe and a low restriction muffler (Bruce Anderson himself only measured 1/2 HP advantage between SSIs and a 2 in/2 out muffler vs a test pipe and a Performance Products sport muffler on a .32 Carrera).

Adam

You don't happen to have a link for that MP3 file do you?

At a DE event at Road America last year I met a guy who gutted his Carrera muffler and had a second tailpipe welded on to the right side. You could look into one tailpipe and see light from the other side. It was loud, LOUD! But he had a metal cap fabricated that fit over the right tail pipe for street use. That made a huge difference, it was still loud but acceptable for street use. However, it was about as far as anyone should go unless you like noise.

you boys are the bomb!
 

well i have to say you boys are chapter an verse
you are the bomb!:cool:

Does the "dual outlet" modification for the stock Carrera muffler require any internal changes? Or is it just cut and weld?

TIA

Matt

A new exhaust pipe is welded to right side, internals are unchanged. Sounds great, its cheap, and it adds a bit of power at 4000+ rpm. You have to cut the rear bumper valance for the new pipe, but that it is a small and easy job. The biggest problem for my mechanic was to find an exhaust pipe that matches the stock pipe on the left side. He got one that is identical to the stock pipe, it looks nice.

Thanks Dannov, for the info.

Also - Mikkel - here is the link to that MP3:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/emcon5/911sc.MP3

Matt

Hey Dannov,

Do you know where your mechanic ended up finding the pipe?

Matt

I don't know, but he initially mentioned the possibility of salvaging a pipe off an old Porsche muffler. The pipe he put on looks like a new one and has the same up-turned edge as the stock pipe, a perfect match. He charged me $30 for the pipe itself.

I have to go with Dannov on this one. I ordered and am still waiting for the stainless 2 1/4 j pipe I ordered from jegs.com to show up so I can cut a section from it and have a right side tip TIG welded on. Then I'll slip on a stock black Porsche exhaust tip over it for a identical look. The 2 1/4 end will have to be swaged up to 2 3/8 to accept the tip. Here's the chart section of the B. Anderson article Dannov scanned me showing the hp similarities of ssi/w dual outlet muffler vs stock/w extra tip on 88 Carrera. Bottom graph is stock hp.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...s/exhchart.gif

I have a dual-in/dual-out B&B muffler for sale, and I know someone who has the headers FS. That will get you some roar!

I like the sound of Chris Striet's car, Headers into Supertraps I think. You can hear it in his racing vids on his web page:

http://homepage.interaccess.com/~erolflyn/racing/streit-racing.html

Tom

Break it to me gently how much?:rolleyes:

hey,
i just got SSI for my sc. I need a 2 in/2 out muffler. how much for your B&B?? sounds like just what I need.

I have a Mille Miglia 2 in 2 out that is basically new that Im willing to sell if anyones is interested. Im looking for $ 600 plus shipping from Massachusetts. It is not currently on the car but there is nothing wrong with it ....TargaEuro

I've got a Borla dual out. My PO put it in.......he spent something like $2500 bucks for it. Anyone with a P-car ALWAYS comments on the sound. I must say it's not too loud, and gives the car a rumbling aggressive sound at low RPM's and ROARS at high rpm's.

Here's a shot for you (the chips have been resprayed!!)

regards,

You can open up the muffler and re-arrange the the baffles to convert to dual out. Warren posted a link to instructions on how to do this some time back.

If you don't do any internal mods, the muffler will be very loud if you just cut and add the new tailpipe. One way to deal with this is to drill a small hole where you want the new tailpipe, then fire it up and see how it sounds.

Keep enlarging the hole until it gets as loud as you want it. Then weld the new tailpipe on.

I have a test pipe on the SC & like the way it sounds if nothing else. It wasn't until I added the Borla (1 in, 1 out) muffler that the car really seemed to have a power increase. The sound is sweet! Just remember that the pipe replaces the cat & so will probably have to be switched back for emission testing. With the pipe/muffler/K&N filter combination the SC pulled 170hp at the rear wheels last year so there definitely is a slight power gain. The car has about 140K miles, lots of track time, but stock US inside. I wouldn’t have the Borla but my wife found it new on the internet for $1.89 + shipping. The supplier honored the price even though obviously a typo so…
Anderson commented that he thought the SSI tubes were two small for the 3.2. We have SSIs on our ’71 & definitely think they make a difference & are worth it if you need to replace the stock heat exchangers.
I have heard that there is a relatively inexpensive mod for the standard SC heat exchangers that allows the use of two in two out mufflers? Anybody have details?

"...how can I make the SC sound great? What improvements can I make...?"

You could transplant a carb'd 2.7 ;)

Jon,
Nice license plate.
GO BUCKS!

I wouldn’t have the Borla but my wife found it new on the internet for $1.89 + shipping. [/QUOTE]


I'll tripple your money and give you $5.67. Heck I'll even pay fro the shipping. :D

you want a nice license plate!!!

There was a post many months ago showing the details involved in adding a second outlet to a stock muffler. I searched for it but could not find it. Does anyone remember that post.......Please help me find it.

Outsmart the engineers
 

That is what you need to do to "squeeze a little more performance out of her" - you need to outsmart the engineers, which is pretty tough.

As you live in England, I assume you already have the good euro-spec equal length exhaust that the SSIs are attempting to replicate for us poor B******s in the US with unequal length design, so you already have picked all the low-hanging fruit.

Perhaps the second pipe mod described above will give extra power, perhaps not. I know the dual pipe sport muffler on my '68S does, but it is a factory approved design. It is also loud as hell and raspy-sounding (all engineering is a trade-off between optimized variables). It gets its extra power primarily by providing a more direct, and equal length, route from the terminous of each heat exchanger to the atmosphere, rather than from simply from having another random exit tube (i.e., placement of the outlet piping is key, along with internal mods to allow the most direct exhaust flow path - in other words, it is a "non-muffling muffler").

Note that the total cross section area of the exhaust pipes on the early sport mufflers (again, factory developed as part of the "sport tuning" kits) is no larger than the stock muffler - key for keeping up gas flow velocity, and therefore torque.

If you just cut another exit on the side without narrowing the cross-section of each outlet, you have just vastly increased outlet cross-section area and reduced exhaust flow velocity through the system at all but the highest rpms, which may kill significant torque in the midrange. Poor midrange torque is the downfall of most BS aftermarket mufflers, and rarely worth the tradeoff!

Bottom line, don't assume the engineers "left money on the table." Think carefully, or you might leave more than you pickup.

are all euro cars equiped with equal length exhaust tubes?? I have a 79 sc and thought I was cursed with the unequal length tubes. I just bought some SSI, was that a waste?

All oem exhausts from '75 911/930 thru '94 964/964T are junk wrt performance and should be updated to SSI, B&B, FVD, Bursch, Cargraphic etc. Take your choice, choose your primary tube diameter and length wisely and the performance minded owner will be rewarded. Usually a free flowing (and loud) muffler accompanies the headers and will enhance their performance.

The problem with the oems is not so much volume as poor exhaust extraction qualities due to their unequal length primary pipes. One cylinder may be in good resonance while adjacent firing ones are actually in reversion.

thanks Bill,
that's what i thought, but the previous post sounded like all euro exhaust was equal length.

I remember a tech note in Pano a long time ago about this. This may be true on the earlier 911's. But I don't think it applies to the Carrera muffler because mine just has a new pipe welded on, same diameter as stock, with no internal mods. The diameter of the pipe and hole are the same. It sounds fine, it is not at all loud. With all that said, it can't hurt to be careful so a little experimentation is ok.