'73 R&T RSR vs 911S Track Test ...
 

Since there seems to be some interest in the subject ... so how many out there wish they had ordered one in '73 at those bargain prices, and just stored it in a garage?

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What does $22,500 equal in today's dollars anyway?

Very cool article!! Nice to read the tests of these cars as new.

Matt

Thanks, Warren.

We're putting together quite an archive, here.

Thanks, Warren! Great read!

That was great. I really enjoyed the article! Thanks for posting it.

That exact orange RSR still resides in Sacramento today in all it's original paint and livery. It was time trialed briefly, then stored since. It made the Sacramento Parade a couple years ago. What a car!

$22,500 in today's Enron's dollars? Probably 35 million and a bullet to the head!

What I was getting at with the "today's dollars" comment is that the opportunity exists today to get into a modern day equivalent of the RSR, for about ten times what it the RSR cost new in '73.

Thirty years from now will we be regretting not buying a GT2? I for one would be feeling quite the *hero*... showing up at a parade at the age of 65 with my original condition, used but not abused, legendary ceramic brake and hollow wheel equipped, road legal racer from the early 21st century.

So what's stopping me ? I can think of 250,000 reasons...and they're all spelled $.

Still, I'd get to enjoy the car for all those years, and I imagine that it's value would hold, and maybe one day even exceed, the price I pay today.

But then there's the wife.....http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/spankA.gif

For the record, $22,500 is the equivalent of around $97,000 in today's dollars, using a 5% average inflation rate for the intervening 30 years (avg inflation for the 70, 80s and 90s were 7, 5.6, and 2.7 percent respectively).

Emanuel

I think in 30 years we'll still be kicking ourselves for not buying the RS's and RSR's. Imagine explaining to your grandson that you could have bought a lightweight RS for 113K at Barrett-Jackson. But Gramps, he'll say, that car would be worth $113 million today -- why'd you pass it up?!

A couple of anomolies about that article. A year later R&T admitted that the "S" that they tested seemed to be pretty sick that day since the previous years test car (an "E" Targa) beat the "S" to 60 by over a second. I wonder if the weight of all of the luxury items listed on the "S" took the verve out of it's performance? I guess that we'll never know. Does anyone have a C&D or MT test of a '73 "S" for comparison?
The second curious thing is that the RSR apparently disappeared into a time warp after this test. Pano reported that apparently the owner used it as a "track toy" occasionally and then parked it. So it is one of the few RSR's that doesn't have FIA/IMSA/SCCA history.

I'm not sure what's worse: having an RSR and beating the c**p out of it racing -- or -- having and RSR and not racing it?:confused:

I may be biased (of course I am), but I believe tuning is EVERYTHING when it comes to the early MFI cars, especially the S cars. Judging from the way my 73 911S runs (and its not in a flawless state of tune...yet), my car runs *way* faster than a 7.8 second 0-60 time and a 16.3 second 1/4 mile. Perhaps their testing involved acceleration with a dead cow attached to the rear bumperettes? They also stated that their gas mileage was unusually low, another indicator of a poorly tuned car. Sure it idled fine, but my car actually idled fairly well when my #6 spark plug wire completely failed. Recently I did one good yet not-too-abusive launch and timed it with a g-tech pro, got 0-60 of 5.9 and 1/4 mile of about 14.3. When testing with my previous M3, I found the gtech to be quite consistent with actual strip times, but always a couple tenths optomistic. So I figure the car did low 6's 0-60 and mid 14's in the 1/4 (which feels right to my butt).

Brad

Man, the first photo of that RSR coming straight at you .... that, for me, is the very epitome of Porsche. :)

Thanks Warren -- Curt

I'd be very happy to buy that orange RSR for $97,500 today, zero comp history and all, even if it meant I would have to live in it. What a bargain that would be!!!!! hmmm... Porsche Hilton? nah, dreamin too much

Great article!

Interesting read on the then-contemporary thinking that the 10 year run on the 911 was getting long in the tooth and the car had been refined to its capacity. Hah! If they only knew.

But the acceleration peformance numbers seem way conservative.

Look at the power-to-weight on the RSR: 2015 lbs and 280 HP! and 0-60 of 5.6 seconds, not much faster than a toady 2700 lbs 3.2 carrera with its measly 217 hp.

I suppose the RSR might have had first gear ratios for cruising the paddock instead of accelerating, but those numbers still look conservative.

Ditto the S which they report a test weight of 2870 lbs! Did they have a couple dead bodies in the trunk?

<i>even if it meant I would have to live in it</i>

Dave, I was thinking the same thing. If only it had fully reclining front seats for sleeping purposes I might have a better chance of convincing my wife of what a good idea this would be .... ;) -- Curt

Thanks Warren!

I looked up the stats for a 996 Carrera from the Feb '98 issue of R&T and they are very very similar to the RSR:

0-60: 5.6(RSR) 4.6(996)
0-100: 12.0 11.6
0-1/4: 13.2@105mph 13.2@105.5mph
60-0: 112 122
80-0: 223 218
Skidpad: 0.927g 0.91g

I think that they were very easy on the RSR though because the 0-30mph time was 2.5 for the RSR and 1.6seconds for the 996 plus they didn't use the full 8000rpm. Nonetheless, technology sure has moved on from the good old days when production sports car can come so close to a factory race car.

One other interesting piece of data was that the 911S has a curb weight only 350 pounds lighter than a 996 (2570 vs 2920). When you consider that a 996 has 1 litre extra engine capacity, much bigger wheels and tyres, air bags, power seats, power steering, bigger brakes, ABS, 6sp tranny, water radiators, side impact bars, a stiffer, bigger and stronger chassis, I think Porsche has done an admirable job in keeping the weight to just 350lbs.

Having said that, I'd take an RSR over a 996.

I posted a litttle while ago that the 2002 model 996 is a nice car....and down right handsome too.

Were it not for the historical significance, and the fact that the RSR is worth so much more, I would have to SERIOUSLY consider taking a new 996 over the RSR were the two offered to me in trade for my soul (or whatever other marginally valuabe asset of mine they would take).

Deck out a grand prix white 996 with black interior, sport seats, aluminum or carbon fibre accents, sport suspension, 11 speaker bose stereo, aftermarket Fikse wheels, and some xenion headlights and you'll have yourself a relatively light, very fast, sexy, usable Pcar.

And just think of the chicks!

:p

One thing to consider:

In 20 years, which will be worth more? The RSR? Or the 996?

I'll take the RSR, thankyouverymuch.

I suspect the person riding in the passenger seat of the RSR may have slowed it down (150-200lbs of extra weight) some. And maybe they had 2 people in the S as well.

Nothing is as great as a RSR!http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pray.gif


Dennis H.

72 911E by the way that same R&T volume had the 72 E road test as well. Very nice.:D

But then the GT2 issue comes up again.

Which will be worth more in 20 years...the RSR or the GT2? Only time will tell, but the GT2 will go down in history just as surely as the RSR has.

Furthermore, you can buy a GT2 today, and genuinely enjoy it with relatively little maintenance cost over the next 20 years. You'd have to buy a dirty great bell jar to store the RSR under, and only drive it on special occasions.

ANother article was posted on the forum just recently comparing the RSR against a replica.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58377

$1600 for a distributor cap!!!...and that's IF you can find one.

Now I know that money's no object for us pcar owners...but gee whiz..who could relax while driving that kind of liability around?

That's it...I'm going out on a limb and saying I would DEFINITELY take a GT2 over a RSR...HAH! I've said it!

THANK YOU!!
I THINK I LOVE YOU WARREN!!

I thought I was the only one that saved those old issues. That issue was the impetus for the RS conversion that I did to my 72S way back when. RSRs were no more readily available to mere mortals in N.A. then than they are now.

Jeez, Curt ... it's only been 3-1/2 months!

oops! I just tried to save those scans and found that I had already saved them. 3 months ago! It's hell gettin' old. -- Curt

FWIW, financially, passing on both the S and the RSR in 1973 was a good move. Inflation is not the right measure by which to judge the value of the investment. Rather, the appropriate risk adjusted discount rate for classic automibiles is. I'm not sure of exactly what the appropriate RADR is, but it's pretty high (e.g., 11%-33%, I'd think -- corresponding to a beta of 1-3), as the value of classic cars is quite cyclical and certainly linked to the performance of the macro economy.

On the other hand, the pleasure one gets from owning and driving such a car is immeasureable. This is the true reason why we invest the time and effort that we do into our cars. Financially -- forgettaboutit! :D

<i>" ...financially, passing on both the S and the RSR in 1973 was a good move...."</i>

I have no idea what you just said, but investing $20K in 1973 and selling that investment for, say, $250K+ in 2002 is not a good move? -- Curt

Not really. Had you invested the $22K in the S&P 500, it would be worth about $500K today. The RSR is probably a riskier investment (assuming away any unique risk, i.e., that you own several classic cars), and therefore you should expect to have to sell for a ways over $500K for it to be a good investment on a risk adjusted basis.

OTH, you can't drive stock certificates. If you factor in use and enjoyment over the years, it would be a pretty awesome investment.

Warren, what color is the 73S in that comparison? Just wondering as I have a 73S sold by Bozzani late in the model year. It has the front driving lights, it once had air conditioning which was removed some time ago, it has the same seats with
cloth inserts like those in the photo.... I doubt it's the same car but is an interesting coincidence.

Dredging up old posts ... of great magazine articles from the past ...

Bruce ... the 911S was a dark metallic purple ... but even though magazine pic colors can be way off, I'm not sure if it was a factory shade or a custom paint-to-order job! Awful close to your color, and an amazing coincidence if it isn't your car!

Nice articles,

Does any one have a road and track or car and driver for the early 3.3 l Turbo ( 1978 - 1985 ). I would really appreciate seeing it.

Thanks

Does any one have an article for a 1978-1985 3.3 L 930

Thanks Jerry S

bump

What about the 1984 SC-RS or the 3.0 carrera rs ? Warren, Curt please post if you have an article running around. Thanks in advance, Aaron

As exciting as it would have been to owned one at the time, if you had invested that $$$ in the stock market, it would be worth a heck of a lot more nowadays...

-Wayne

oh to own an RSR would be something else. for most of us mere mortals any porsche that we have done anything to performance wise is still a hoot and we can afford it. if money was no problem i would be driving around in my dauer 962 thank you very much, or screw it why not a 917 or 908 for that matter. great article!!!

The increase in value would be fine, I guess. But if the investment meant leaving a RSR in a garage, well... I just couldn't do it. No return would be adequate compensation for not driving an RSR.

Although extremely pricey for their day (When $1.15/hr was minimum wage!), early RSRs weren’t available to the public. As limited-production offerings, these special Carreras were strictly reserved for favored racing teams. As full-on racecars, they were not DOT approved and couldn’t be registered for use on public roads. After testing an early example in Europe, Paul Fierre's (sp?) observed that its exceptional speed and handling were tempered by harsh suspension that would make it quite brutal for everyday driving.

A close cousin to the 1974 RS/IROC 3.0 is a normally aspirated factory "Turbo-Look" 3.2. Most of these special-order Carreras were built from 1984-89 on the very same M491 platform as original RSRs. They may not be as light or powerful but are equipped with the same brakes and more compliant suspension. As street cars, they have the same muscular "look" and pedigree as an earlier RSR. Although not the "real thing", it's definitely close enough for me. Moreover, after six years of using mine as a daily driver, I'm still a real happy camper! :D

Hmmm...... I must say I wouldn't want to drive an RSR even if I was a gazillionaire. I would probably fall into the the type of owner that would keep the car in concours condition an store it in a garage. Then I would buy JO's car and upgrade the engine to a full house six throttle motec 3.8 with a 6sp g50 and enjoy something that looks better (imo), is way faster and could actually be parked on a street without worrying to death if someone's going to steal it or vandalize it.