Replacing 'all' suspension bushings - 911SC

[aldente295]

Hi all,

So, I'm embarking down the road of upgrading my suspension in my 1980 SC. Like anything I've done with my car, I'm coming into it with almost zero knowledge and learning things by necessity as I go. I've been doing plenty of reading and already have a fairly substantial shopping list that I'll no doubt need to rationalize once I start to fill in the 'Price' column!

In any case - this is (hopefully) an easy question to start things off. I've read quite a few posts from people where they'll list all sorts of fun upgrades they'll be doing (T bars, strut inserts etc etc) and they'll casually mention 'replacing all bushings' as a matter of course. But nowhere have I found a definitive list of all of the bits of rubber that one should replace in a 30 year old car's suspension.

Can anyone help me? I'm not expecting part numbers and happy to look up any pieces of the suspension that I don't yet know - but a simple list of the 'basic bushings' would at least give me an idea of what I should start with. THEN we can get into the whole poly-graphite discussion! :-)

Anyone?

Al

[D911SC]

I am in the middle of doing exactly this. The first comment I'll make is that replacing 'all bushings' is alot of work and if you're like me you'll end up doing much more than just that. It's a really case of 'while you're in there'.

Here is a list of the various bushings you can look at doing. Someone will add any others in case I have forgotten.

1. Front sway bar bushes (4)
2. Front A Arm bushes (2)
3. Rear sway bar bushes (2)
4. Spring plate bushes (2 per plate - old ones need to be cut or burned off)
5. Trailing arm bushes (2)

There is other rubber (camber plates and shock mounting points) but the above are ones I imagine most people target. I am not sure if you can replace the rubber in the camber plate. I believe you either replace the plate for an OEM or go to something like monoball.

You'll need to work out what style of bushings you want to go for. The main choices are OEM style rubber, poly or bronze. Each have their own pros and cons and the choice will largely depend on what you use the car for and how much ongoing maintenance you want to do. It sounds like you've already started researching this one.

Try the following thread for some more ideas:

911 SC suspension bushes

I'm yet to get my car on the road so I can't give you first hand feedback of the improvement but you might want to consider a TB upgrade. Search and you'll find plenty of opinions on the topic. For a firm ride but still OK for street I was recommended to get 21/28 or 21/29. Apparently 21/29 tightens up the rear a bit more than the factory front/rear balance and will remove a bit of understeer and therefore dial in a little more oversteer. It should spice up the driving for a rear engine (ie. weighted) car!

[aldente295]

Champion!! - exactly what I'm looking for. I'll read thru the suspension post as well.

(Any leads on where to get t-bars at a reasonable price in Oz? I'm torn between 21/28 and 22/29...every other post I read changes my mind.)

[arrowSC]

Originally Posted by aldente295

I'm torn between 21/28 and 22/29...every other post I read changes my mind

I've been going through the same process for my 82 SC recently, both here and at impactbumpers.com in the UK and ended up pretty confused.

The first thing is to decide where and how you want to drive it. Realistically my car will be used 90+% for country road blasts plus a few track days each year, and I'm going with the advice of a 911 specialist I trust and sticking with std front Tbars plus 26mm rear when I refurb my suspension with poly bushes this winter.

It may not sound much of an upgrade, but following a recent trackday among some pretty exotic 911s I don't think it needs a lot changed for a good road/track balance.
Others will have different views but may also have different aims.

[benr7132]

I don't want to hijack this thread...but I am about to. It's a related question. I have a 1980 SC that has a lot of creaks in the suspension...I have siliconed up what I can which improved things, but I imagine I need to get in to replace the bushings etc. Here's my quandary, which searching is not yet answering for me. I am not tracking my car and basically want to return it to stock/as relativaly new performance. What are the "wear" parts that need replacing? I am on a budget and don't want to replace things that really don't need replacing, at least at this stage. What are the things I must replace to get rid of the creaks and groans and bring the performance back to where she was at perhaps a year or two old?

Any thoughts appreciated - many thanks!!

[schumicat]

after 30 years anything rubber needs replacing. so pretty much all the stuff listed above. I would add to the list:

1. upper strut mounts
2. tie rod ends,
3. motor/transmission mounts (4).
4. shifter/rear coupler bushings (4)
5. rear sway bar drop links (2)

Pelican sells graphite replacements (made by GRP) for the upper strut mounts. I just did the job. The old strut mounts looked bad, and renewing them improved the ride noticeably (car would rattle going over bumps). It is not that hard a job.

So far I have done the tie rods, shifter bushings, rear sway drop links, rear sway bushings, upper strut mounts, and the inner front sway bushings (the outer two are more work). By far the biggest improvement was the upper mounts.

Originally Posted by benr7132

I don't want to hijack this thread...but I am about to. It's a related question. I have a 1980 SC that has a lot of creaks in the suspension...I have siliconed up what I can which improved things, but I imagine I need to get in to replace the bushings etc. Here's my quandary, which searching is not yet answering for me. I am not tracking my car and basically want to return it to stock/as relativaly new performance. What are the "wear" parts that need replacing? I am on a budget and don't want to replace things that really don't need replacing, at least at this stage. What are the things I must replace to get rid of the creaks and groans and bring the performance back to where she was at perhaps a year or two old?

Any thoughts appreciated - many thanks!!

[GaryR]

Ok, get enough info yet?

Now go to the Elephant Racing site and order all new Polybronze bushings and monoballs. Call Chuck and speak to him for advice, maybe he will tell you to stay with rubber. I won't.

[Flieger]

I like the Rebel Racing stuff. Lighter and no-maintainance. Available through Pelican as well. Suspension1

[autobonrun]

Originally Posted by D911SC

I am in the middle of doing exactly this. The first comment I'll make is that replacing 'all bushings' is alot of work and if you're like me you'll end up doing much more than just that. It's a really case of 'while you're in there'.

Here is a list of the various bushings you can look at doing. Someone will add any others in case I have forgotten.

1. Front sway bar bushes (4)
2. Front A Arm bushes (2)
3. Rear sway bar bushes (2)
4. Spring plate bushes (2 per plate - old ones need to be cut or burned off)
5. Trailing arm bushes (2)

Item 4 on your list is one of the most difficult jobs I've done. After I finished I said I'd never do it again. It is a DIY job, many including me have done it; but it can turn into a real bit#@. Between the torsion bar being frozen in place to having to burn the bushings off, to having to set the correct angle on the plate, this DIY got on my last nerve. If everything falls in place no problem, but if they don't then ...

[RWebb]

creaks like mean nasty ol' polyurethane bushings are in there

based on your type of driving, roads, presence/absence of a female companion and whine level (I don't mean the fan, either), age(s), etc. you need to decide whether to use new [a] rubber vs. [b] polybronze or maybe the Rebel things.

some more info, with a diagram of the parts:

Yet Another Boring Rgruppe Car – Part II, Suspension

do not neglect to seal the top shock tower mounts with dum-dum (strip caulk) -- some people are elevating "prettiness" over function and creating a car that is not very driveable

[midnight911]

be prepared to add these to the list. may be you need 'em, may be not...i ended up needing them.

+ torsion bars (rear spring plate gets stuck so i resorted in cutting the bar...and if you go with stiffer rear, naturally you'd want new fronts as well... ;-) )

+ front lower ball joints (likely they are shot)

+ front lower ball joint retaining pin (i have one (sorry not a pair) for sale. :-) )

+ alignment...he he he...you'd be reading a lot about this subject.

good luck! i had a lot of fun rebuilding the suspension. i bet you will too.
i think i spent more time reading about the subject at this forum than actually spent time under the car. just do it...it's not that bad after all. it's just that people have different opinions...and you will have one after you're done! :-)

[RWebb]

actually, the ball joints seem to last quite a while - he has an SC

were yours shot? if so, can you post any history, or miles on your car?

obviously, you do NOT want them to fail, so a prophylactic replacement can be wise

[midnight911]

@randy,
mine is a 84 carrera. apologies if any confusion introduced...
do not know if my failed ball joints were original, but i had 170k on the car when replaced.

[KNS]

I've refreshed most of the suspension in my SC, it handles wonderfully with no creaks. I'd have to say the biggest noticeable improvement was when I replaced the ball joints, tightened up the steering considerably.

[RSTarga]

elephant rubber for the street. 21/28 torsion bars.

[RWebb]

after 20 years it's likely time - rubber hardens with age

you also may see cold flow

[benr7132]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Chuck at ER has a package designed for me...gonna run around $2K for everything, which seems pretty reasonable for the polybronze set up. I just hope it makes the difference I am expecting...

[Flieger]

Have fun with the zirks.

[euro911sc]

Originally Posted by RWebb

do not neglect to seal the top shock tower mounts with dum-dum (strip caulk) -- some people are elevating "prettiness" over function and creating a car that is not very driveable

Randy, what do you mean with this? Getting that damned black tar off the shock mounts and surrounding sheet metal was a real PITA! No way I could get it all off either Now you are saying to put it back?

-Michael

[RWebb]

yes, the area needs to be sealed - you can use strip caulk (dum-dum)