build thread - my version of a mini-duck for longnoses.
 

fuctionality aside, I've never been thrilled with the look of the ducktail on un-flared cars. I had one on my SWB for a bit but it was a bit much. I like the shape, just not the size. also,on the sides it just looks 'heavy'. my thought is to use the basic shape, but less of it.

I came across a less-than-stellar duck yesterday ( thanks Duane ) . so time to have at it. I cut off the tail from the decklid. after a couple of additional trimming cuts here's where I'm at. I'm liking it so far. I'll post additionally as the project progresses so subscribe away.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295842293.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295842321.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295842342.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295842375.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295842443.jpg

That's a neat concept. Can't wait to see your progress:cool:

+1 Sub'd SmileWavy

here's as far as I got tonight. pretty close to what I'm looking for. a little more trimming, some prep and I can panel bond it on. then start the bodywork/fairing. updates will continue. D.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295848215.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295848250.jpg

which mount point are you guys likin'

A 'tuner-car tail' http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/pukeface.gif

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295849279.jpg

B 'low-rider' http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/shake.gif

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295849364.jpg

C 'middle of the road' ;)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295849440.jpg

D 'high and tight' :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295849551.jpg

personally, I'm leaning toward D, although C is probably closer to the stock location. any thoughts?




.

Roll it out into the open and lets see the same shots from a better distance:D

I would go with D. High and tight.

Maybe there is something to the A position? :confused:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/max_911_fahrer/5233335599/" title="POC Racing Willow Springs 2010.12.04_late 146 by Max_911_fahrer, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5233335599_61f16ec832_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="POC Racing Willow Springs 2010.12.04_late 146" /></a>

Great idea... was thinking much the same thing but starting with a 964 lid - a la Singer - I am thinking maybe the mid position much like the 996 GT3 , minus the blade wing. Keep up the good work.

Brad

D no question

I'm not sure I like the idea at all... I'm kinda with you that no flares makes tails look bad and you should have no tail on a narrow body car... I also agree that we need some distance shots to fully eval the whole look from side to rear qtrs before making a choice ;)

You may be doing yourself an injustice with out the whole car together. It may not look like you planned when the bumpers get back on it!

So I reserve the right to change my mind ;)

-m

Singer 911
 

The Singer has a small duck, and it's still in the same position as the original one:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295879551.jpg

How about mounting it right below the rear window, or even above it like on the roof, that should work ;).
I also think that if you are going to do this that you should cut it down more because it will be hard to tell the difference unless pointed out.

D. I think the line of the grill flows nicely into the quack.

Interesting project! I agree, a couple more photos at a distance would help, but high and tight is the easiest to like immediately, because it's closer to stock.

Hard to know what the best aero solution is, though, and the best esthetic solution is rarely the best aero solution.

From an "effectiveness" standpoint.....high and tight is the way to go.

Keep it close to stock.
There's a reason it was located there from the factory....
:)

C or D look great to me but in the end, it's your ride, you gotta love it. Great to see people leaving the box so to speak.

I've always wondered about duck tails holding water while parked. I know a little water isn't going to be a problem especially if it's a fair weather car. But "D" looks to me as if it might hold a bit more standing water right below the grill than a more traditional duck? Or is this even a consideration? Otherwise, high and tight looks more "right".

+1. Can't wait to see the finished product!

Here's an interesting one;)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295890504.jpg

The two examples shown both had flares... any w/o flares?

Either way I think you need to split it down the middle and make sure it stretches the full width of the deck lid.

-m

well, thanks for all the input. full car pics will have to wait till the weekend because of lack of daylight here in the great white north. odds are I'll be mostly done by then. here's the car with a full duck.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295927029.jpg

I'd really like something back there because it does help a lot with high speed stability.




but that's exactly what I don't like about the factory duck. when you look at it from the side you see this flat upside down 'Y' growing out of the 1/4 panel. I want the tail to end before the edge if the lid so the lid to 1/4 meeting is flush. more like the singer car posted earlier.
this shows what I mean. ( sorry if you see this Christien, no offense intended SmileWavy )



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295926351.jpg

or this, ( I know this car is the holy grail, but it shows what I mean in black better )


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295926470.jpg

what you sir, appear to have for a base is an oversized ducktail. you can't bash a duck with a fake. One as misproportioned as that will of course, look retarded.

I know this one isn't quite correct, but, it was my fourth, (or fifth?) one and none were much different. the real ones or GOOD copies look better but they're still too much for the car.
I'm not bashing the duck at all, just looking for an option that'll suit my taste. if I didn't like the duck so much I'd use any of a number of other tails, with much less work ;).

see quoted post for picture

these are the most noticable differences for me at least.

the red lines on the far side would usually be about the same length on most ducktails including the 2 besides yours that you posted. the lines on the closest side would usually be reversed in terms of which has a greater angle.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295940306.jpg

here's where I'm at as of now. I think I'll bond it to a steel lid. this glass one wasn't too easy to come by. this is pretty much the shape and location I'm after. can you do the red line thing on this one and tell me where I'm off, angle wise, as compared to a real one? :)



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295941077.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295941136.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295941176.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295941344.jpg

Looks good!

You could also make it even smaller - look at the spoiler added to the Audi tt. That was all that was needed fo a car that has 60% front weight bias and a similar profile to the 911.

too lazy too go through the trouble of uploading again but anglewis the oversized one looked about 100-110 degrees, normal ducks are about 90 degrees and your new one appears about 80. the far side measurement/ration appears to be reversed from the oversized one.

always room for new options. from what you've posted I like it. it's a nice balance. curious to see the whole car with the new tail prototype from the rear 3/4 view.

i think it looks too low even at D. I'd try it with the leading edge of the duck is 1/2"+ from the grill opening.

a fellow pelican did the red angle line for me ( thanks Alfy) SmileWavy. so what do you guys think. does the angle seem right?



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296027914.jpg

Well, I consider mine to be an "accurate reproduction" from GT Racing. It looks to be on the same line as the angle cut of the 911R lights.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/max_911_fahrer/5369175016/" title="911S stunt road landscape by Max_911_fahrer, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/5369175016_6027ee1e2c_z.jpg" width="640" height="426" alt="911S stunt road landscape" /></a>

Click for full-size.

thanks Flieger. I think I may be straying from that which makes it a ducktail, the 'duckiness' . laying it down too much is making it look too modern. here's a pic 'standing up' , not trimmed yet though. after looking at many duck pics, I think the rear face of the tail should be at the same angle as the front edge of the taillight. this looks close.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296030407.jpg

not accurate for a normal duck, but but that angle suits it better.

Saw this on another thread... like a duck tail / mini wing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/449353-ultimate-retro-speedster-thread-5.html

Anyone know what this one is about? who makes? etc? Ive got a duck tail Im thinking of cutting up as well since its not bonded to a metal lid.
This one has got the profile of a duck but feels not as bulky.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1247027408.jpg

I think the angles are very important. Simply building something that "looks like a duck" may not provide the proper 'areodynamics"? But should be "good enough"? I mean, what about wind tunnel testing, or whatever? Probably over thinking here, but.....I guess what I am getting at is that a faulty design might slow you down rather than providing the proper downforce you are looking for; appearance being the only concern, if that's the goal, then it probably doesn't matter much "at normal" speeds.

IIRC, the original 'duck' starts having an effect at 25 MPH. Unlikely the smaller, angled duck would produce a similar effect, but it is also likely that it will produce more downforce than a flat lid. Do like the cosmetics of the smaller, more angled version. Interested to see the ultimate result from a few angles.

Cool little project Don. I bet it will look right at home on a narrow body. Now finish it and start driving your car!