What did I just buy? Real or not? Good or bad?
 

I'm a bit of a muscle car collector (vettes and camaros) but on a whim at last week's BJ auction I purchased what was advertised as 1985 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo Slant Nose Cabriolet.

The car has yet to be delivered, but in the meantime I've been doing a bit of research. I've not drawn too many conclusions yet other than whatever it is that is being delivered next week is kinda unusual.

If you guys are anything like my fellow vette chaps, i'm sure you can help me out. Based on what little reading I have done, the VIN should give some clue. The VIN is WP0ZZZ93ZFS000237.

Any thoughts or comments welcome.

http://highwinds.barrett-jackson.com...rofile_Web.jpg
http://highwinds.barrett-jackson.com...nt_3-4_Web.jpg
http://highwinds.barrett-jackson.com...ar_3-4_Web.jpg
http://highwinds.barrett-jackson.com...terior_Web.jpg

pictures and more info ...give it a few minutes the gurus will decode ...


welcome ... how do .... or

Steve

Thanks.

nice whim! where did you take the VIN from. You want the one on the windshield pillar or door (seems like there is one in the door). But you do not want the one in the trunk area.

There is a good chance you will enjoy your new path more than the muscle cars. Enjoy!

I'm pretty sure the car was discussed on the turbo board. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/586757-barret-jackson-slant-nose-cab.html

BTW, I think the dash vents and gages are showing that to be pre-1984. Am I wrong?

Title, pictures, receipts, etc...

guess I was wrong about the dash... the VIN shows it to be an 85 930 built in Stuttgart, number 237 off the line I think.

By the vin# it would seem to be an '85 RoW turbo coupe, the 237th that year. Likely an aftermarket slant/cab conversion, hopefully a good one.

Thanks for the link. I had pretty much determined it was not an original Cab, was a slant nose conversion and that it was a Euro car. Beyond that......???

It'll have to go a looooooong way to be more fun than my wife's other car.

From a post by Shaun 84 Targa - "84-85 dash is the same as SC. 86 on has different center vent, different defrost." I stand educated... love this board

I'm no expert decoder, but my book says it is one of 1050 Cabrio U.S. Turbo's produced between 1984 and 1989. Engine serial number should be 64Fxxxxx, where each "x" represents a number.

So it looks like it's real, turbo, not sure if it's a factory slant nose though. I think, however, most professional collectors don't just go by vin numbers, they look for other evidence hidden in the way the car is made or optioned. You may want to list the options, those can be found in the original owners manual or on a sticker on the underside of the hood.

As far as defining whether it's good or bad, it depends on how much you paid for it, what the normal market value for the car is and what you plan on doing with the car. I am of no help here, maybe others will be.

is the front FG or steel?

Most likely a Row, EURO... Meaning Grey market for US.?
Good luck with the smog Nazi's!

Wife
 

OK ... what cool muscle car does your wife have? SmileWavy

One of the best ways to tell if it's factory slant is the headlight mechanisms.
Very few went to the expense of buying the real stuff.
Take some pics in the trunk with it exposed.
Another would be an extra cooler behind the vent in the RR wheel well.

I watched the BJ auction. I think the car had 31K original miles and went for $31K?

Thought to my self, even if it isn't a factory slant nose that sure looks NICE and was glad I wasn't in Scottsdale as it liked like a great deal.

Drive it like you stole it.:)

'09 zr1

Detailed owner and registration history back to 1985. Documented recent mechanical check up and service. 31k original miles. A+ exterior. B+ interior. B engine compartment. B undercarriage. $32k

It is an 85, how can I tell? It is warped almost exactly like mine. I mean almost exactly,100% copy.

Great, more compPetition looking for a good used black dash.

Welcome! Nice ride.

Jack

VIN decode from the Dec. 1995 "genuine parts catalog 1974-89" page 123

1981-89 17 digit VIN code meanings

WPO- 1,2,3 - 4,5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 -10 - 11,12,13,14

WPO = W. Germany Porsche

1,2,3 = VDS Code *ZZZ refers to gray market vehicle. (*All chassis are stamped with ZZZ. Hoever the VDS code will be different on the VIN tag or title)

4,5 = Porsche type. 91 = 911, 93 = 930

6 = test digit

7 = model year. B = 1981, C = '82, D = '83, etc. up to K = '89. (I is skipped in this numbering system since I can be confused with the number 1)

8 = manufacturing location. S = Stuttgart

9 = 3rd digit of Porsche car type. 1 = 911, 0 = 930

10 = body & engine code. 2 = 911 coupe USA/Canada, 6 = 911 Targa USA/Canada, 7 = 911 Cabriolet USA/Canada

11, 12, 13, 14 = consectutive chassis production line serial number

WP0ZZZ93ZFS000237

Is there a problem with the middle zero of the three zeros....?

Shouldn't it be a 2, 6 or a 7 ?

I was thinking the same thing, however my parts reference is for USA use- it only lists USA/Canada digits for that digit position in the VIN. So I suspect there are other digits for Euro cars.

They sure have a way to make the exterior look spectacular ... I saw a segment on how BJ go about acquiring their vehicles.
Three guys show up at your door and basically pressure you to hand over the car for a ridiculous amont of money.I'm sure one of the guys who sold his car to BJ for next to nothing ended up jumping off a bridge when he saw how much they fetched for it !

Cheers !
Phil

Alfonso....NOT a US car if the VIN truly is ZZZ.

Note to OP.....if you took the VIN number from the trunk floor, it WILL show ZZZ as the middle digits, but this will NOT be the VIN for a US-spec car...it will be the "chassis number". It IS the VIN for a Euro car.

A US car will show VIN in these two other places

- on the driver's A-pillar, with a riveted-on black number plate ( edge is rolled, I saw fakes with a "flat" black plate, no rolled edge. Beware !)

- as you open the door, on the striker plate sheet metal under the latch. the trunk floor numbers will match BEFORE and AFTER the floor's ZZZ numbers.....but will have other characters like... AP0 instead of ZZZ. A sticker.

Probably no way to know the exact miles if the speedo has been changed over to one that reads in MPH. The front flat fenders are not factory since they dont have the vents in them so its pretty safe to assume they didnt use factory parts in the conversion. This is a chop top cab that didnt start life as a cab so its value really depends on the inner workmanship of the conversion. A PPI would have been nice on the motor to see what the leak down and compression numbers looked like and give you at least some idea of how the motor is.

Sort of a crap shoot, nice looking car if you like slant cabs could be a 10 bell winner or not hard to say on the given info.

Well, If the motor and trans are orig, you have a 300 HP Euro Turbo with a 40% LSD. Thats a good start. IMO its a shame that its not a coupe any longer.

We don't even need the VIN to know it cannot be a US turbo. 930's didn't return to the US until model year 86.

I don't care for slant nose turbos but that one sure has nice paint!

porschenut....good call....correct, no US Turbos until their re-introduction in '86. Since we haven't established how much was done aftermarket or not ( slope-nose, etc)....I also didn't want to assume the turbo was factory either.

Started life as a 930 sunroof coupe. There were no factory slants in 85, but some special wishes cars done in Germany. However, they normally used Targa's for conversion to convertibles, not coupes.. Also the fenders do not appear to be normal steel conversions with vents. the headlights would lend further info. Special wishes coul have done most anything to customer spec though in 85. Even if not done at factory direction, It could still be a good job, but would require significant strengthening to prevent cowl shake under hard acceleration with 930 engine.

All that being said there are two option codes that weren't explained. I330, I391

Model year: 1985
Model ID: 911
Engine Code KW HP Liter Cylinders Model
930.66 221 300 3,30 6 911 TURBO

Transmission Code: 930.36

Options found on your vehicle.
Option Code Description
M058 Impact absorbers, front and rear
M197 Stronger battery
M220 Locking differential 40 %
M261 Door mirror - flat - passenger's side, electrically adjustable and heatable
M533 Anti-theft device
M650 Electrical sliding roof



The following codes were found, but the description may not be accurate.
Option Code Possible Description
M567 Windscreen tinted, upper part darker coloured


We were not able to find definitions for any codes below this line.
I330
I391

BTW, thanks for posting.I watched this car across the block and wondered what the story was. I'm afflicted by the slant bug and would have tried to buy the car if I had been there.

Pic of headlights (from other dicussion thread):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295798208.jpg

Definitely not Porsche

Wow man, $30K+ for a chopped up coupe? That's rough.

That's clearly not factory slantnose stuff, but hopefully it's at least steel (not fiberglass).

And hopefully they did at least some kind of stiffening to the chassis. The coupe was not designed to have the roof cut off. If they just chopped the roof off and called it a day, that car is going to drive like a wet noodle.

Given the history of the car (Euro import, swapped speedo, chopped up, etc.) the number on the odometer is meaningless.

Hope it works out for you (steel conversion parts, decent quality conversion, not too worn out mechanicals, etc.) An auction was the perfect place to sell that car, it does look shiny and in any situation where there is due diligence and full disclosure made on the car, it is going to be a very tough sell.

As others have told you, this is a car that started life as a Euro turbo coupe, and had its top taken off to be made into a cab. The "factory" way to have done it would to have added some chassis stiffening braces to minimize the structural loss of the roof. There were no turbos imported into America in 1985.

Still not clear if it's a factory "special wishes" slantnose or not. 1985 would not have been a year that the slantnose option was official. But if you paid the factory enough, they could make anything you wanted. By far, chances are this was not a factory slantnose. But if factory parts were used for the conversion, at least you'd find: front and rear quarters should be steel. Stamped steel, not welded in the rear. Not fiberglass. Most front fenders had louvers above the wheelwells, but there are some early factory slants that did not. The front headlamps (which don't look Porsche, BTW), should be powered by a single motor with a rod connecting the two mechanisms. Not two separate motors. The boxed rocker panels should have a working jackpad receptacle extension roughly midships (so that you can jack up the car). The rear fender slats (3 per side) should be made out of wood. There should be a front center-mounted oil cooler. There should be a cooler in one of the rear fender intakes, as well. Those are the factory slant details off the top of my head, at least.

Do you have a picture of the options sticker affixed to the underside of the front hood/bonnet?

Whether it's "real" or not, enjoy your car.

Thanks for all the replys.

Here is what I know:
- the VIN is good. That is unless there has been a 25 yr mistake/scam. I have the registration records back to 1985 when the car was first registered in the US in Edna, TX.

- the mileage is probably correct. With most of it's 12 previous registrations the mileage was reported and does not appear to be out of place/sync. I suppose there could be something amiss, but I doubt it.

- since the vehicle has not yet been delivered and I did not not check, I don't know about the fenders. But I do recall a fiberglass hood.

- no accidents or damage reported to Carfax. Of course this data is only as good as the reporting.

Thanks for the info, but how do you know about the options (at least the ones not shown in the pictures) on this car? What am I missing?

There should be a sticker on the underside of the front hood. It'll list the options that came with the car. Of course, if the hood is fiberglass it's not original so who knows what happened to that sticker. Easiest way to get the above info, at least.

If you're so inclined, you can pay about $100 and order a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) from Porsche based upon your VIN. They run them in batches, so you might get it in a few weeks...or it might take several months. It should list the same essential info. Accuracy is suspect, though. There are reports that the COAs people have received have clearly been wrong, in which case another attempt (or 3) had to be made to get the correct info listed.