Left lowbeam is out in my euro H4's w/ relays from pelican, HELP!!

[UrQuattro]

Hey all,

I've got a strange problem. I installed a set of euro h4s on my 81 SC just a few months ago. I haven't even used the lights much in the dark.

On the new year's day run, I think that is when the light went out, nimbus I'm not sure.

I have tried multiple bulbs. One bulb I tried would have a low-beam but no high beam, but not anymore, now any bulb I put in the left light won't work on lowbeam, just highbeam.

So, it has to be electrical. I don't have any blown fuses in the front compartment, but I have the setup on relays. I have the relay setup available through pelican where you connect in through the main connections using the cylindrical connectors.

I have a good automotuve multimeter, so I can check connections, but I'm not sure how these particular repays are set up. Is it possible for a relay to fail such that only one headlight will go out? I thought they only had one circuit internally.

Anyway, thanks in advance... I need to figure this problem out asap.

Michael

[Danny_Ocean]

Flip-flop the relays and see if the problem follows to the other side of the car.

[rusnak]

The sixth or so fuse back from the front of the fuse panel is the low beam circuit fuse. Make sure there is power there. If so, then I'd check the low beam connector in the light bulb socket, and work back.

[DRACO A5OG]

+1 on check for voltage then back track to fuse.

My wire slipped out the bottom of fuse panel because I did not tighten it enough when I installed a relay.

[UrQuattro]

Sorry for the ignorance, but which terminal is the low beam? The top or the side (the one that isn't a ground).

Thanks,
Michael

[HarryD]

I am not familiar with the Pelican relay setup but if you have only two relays in the kit, then one is for high beams and one for low beams.

Assuming this is the case, that means the problem is past the relay. Do you have power at the headlamp connector? If so, then the problem is whith the connector to the headlamp bulb. If you do not have power, then you will need to trace the wire back from the relay to the headlamp.

If I am not mistaken, the headlamp current flows from the battery, through the relay to your existing fuse block where it separates into the left and right headlamp circuits. Since only one side is dead, it must be between the fuse block and headlamp.

If I had to guess, you have a bad fuse or dirty connections at the fuse block.

To clean the connections at the fuse, remove each wire and clean it with some emery cloth. Clean the points where the wire attaches to the fuse block with some emery cloth or a wire brush that fits in the hole. Clean the spots on the fuse panel where the fuses contact the fuse holders and the ends of the fusescwith some emery cloth. Reattach everything and see if that makes it work.

[UrQuattro]

When I installed the setup, I remember that the instructions had me pull one low beam and one high beam lead from the top of the very front fuse block and connected it through a twist on splice connector to wires from the relays, I believe white is high and yellow is low. I think I then connected one more lead from each relay to the top of the OTHER side's top fuse connector. Then there was a red wire which went to the battery and a black wire to a ground.

I'm assuming from this this means the power comes in from the bottom of the block, so that now, the fuse that has a connection to the relay is the signal coming from the headlight switch, which then flows to the relay, telling it to switch on it's relayed circuit, where the relay pulls power straight from the battery connection, and sends it right to the bulb, yah?

The setup I have is the JWest one.

Anyway, tomorrow once it's light out I'll see if I can figure out how I installed it.

Oh, if anyone has a copy of the jwest setup instructions and can email me a picture/PDF of it, I'd appreciate it.

Michael

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by UrQuattro

When I installed the setup, I remember that the instructions had me pull one low beam and one high beam lead from the top of the very front fuse block and connected it through a twist on splice connector to wires from the relays, I believe white is high and yellow is low. I think I then connected one more lead from each relay to the top of the OTHER side's top fuse connector. Then there was a red wire which went to the battery and a black wire to a ground.

I'm assuming from this this means the power comes in from the bottom of the block, so that now, the fuse that has a connection to the relay is the signal coming from the headlight switch, which then flows to the relay, telling it to switch on it's relayed circuit, where the relay pulls power straight from the battery connection, and sends it right to the bulb, yah?

The setup I have is the JWest one.

Anyway, tomorrow once it's light out I'll see if I can figure out how I installed it.

Oh, if anyone has a copy of the jwest setup instructions and can email me a picture/PDF of it, I'd appreciate it.

Michael

This is how the relay set up works: You attached the relays to a white and yellow wire that had connected to the top of the fuse block--that is correct as the fuse block is fed power from the top connections and in the case of head lights, the power is coming from the head light/high beam switches. The other (bare end) yellow and white wires from the relays are connected to their corresponding fuses at the top of the fuse block. Now, each fuse is fed power directly from the battery (through the relays) rather than the head light/high beam switch.

Here's the other factor. Each fuse you wired to the relay (there were two, fed by white and a yellow wires) is also connected to an adjacent fuse through a solid connection on the back of the fuse block so although it appears that only a single fuse is being fed by each relay, actually two fuses are being fed by each relay. This is where the power is split between left and right sides--through the fuse block. When you check your connections, remember that you are dealing with four fuses.

White wire from relay feeds fuses #7 and 8.
Yellow wire from relay feeds fuses #6 and 5.

Fuses #6 and 8 feed the left side (one for low beam, one for high.)
Fuses #5 and 7 feed the right side (one for low beam, one for high.)

You likely didn't touch the wire connections at the bottom of the fuse block, but check them anyway for tightness. Check the four fuses for integrity. Check your top block connections. Finally, check that you are getting power to each pair of fuses when the lights/ highs are on to see if the connection in the rear of the block is good (they rarely fail, but it's an easy check.)

[Wil Ferch]

I cringe when I read this kinda stuff as it means there were wiring changes made without a fundamental understanding of basic electrics....or more specifically...where the power "from" and power "to" path is. Dangerous !!! Power comes from a battery source to the TOP side of the fuse box....thru the fuses...and OUT TO the load ( item) from the wire below.

The best diagnosis is with either ( both?) pictures and a wiring diagram of what was done. As an *example*...here is the modified factory wiring diagram on what my previous 85 looks like after the headlight relays were installed. Let us know if you can follow this schematic...and also see how same/different your set up is...and then we can go further.

[Wil Ferch]

URquattro says.... "I'm assuming from this this means the power comes in from the bottom of the block.."

1.) no....from the top
2. never "Assume" when dealing with electrics.....trace and understand where the power is coming from.

[rusnak]

Michael,

Never mind Wil. He's always like that.

His information is very good, just not the presentation. The rest of us are also here to help.

No question is a stupid question. Carry on.

Russ

[Wil Ferch]

I never said its a stupid question. However, people should at least understand fundamentals before they attach wires to powered systems. At least FROM and TO fundamentals...its not that hard. Harsh?...maybe, but then fires don't happen.

We also can't help if there are no pics or schematics. "Words" wont descibe the situation accurately enough for us to help. And yes, we're here to help.

[UrQuattro]

Ossi- thank you so much for the explanation. It will help alot with me getting this solved.

Michael

[UrQuattro]

Gee, thanks Wil. You make it so welcoming to ask questions here. Yes, I know how to read schematics.

I didn't know about the connection on the back of the block, so when Ossi nicely explained how this setup works, it clicked as to how it all works.

Sorry I don't live up to your standards. Would you rather have me go scew around on my car, cause a spark, get injured, etc. and THEN come ask a question about why what I had done did what it did? Or, would you rather me make observations about what wires go where and try to figure it out, typing out my educated speculation based on what I remember from the instructions as well as what I saw, and then asked the question on here.

Overall, I got it pretty damn close to correct. Sorry for mixing up the hot side, which I would have figured out with my multimeter.

But don't be a dick.

Michael

[Wil Ferch]

Michael:

The fact that you "assumed" where power is coming from....and your further statements ( " Anyway, tomorrow once it's light out I'll see if I can figure out how I installed it...")

..... indicates you followed written instructions like " put tab A into slot B". You gave no indication you knew how you had ALREADY modified your car. You say you know how to read schematics.....the one I show indicated the bus-bar that connects the feed to 2 headlights...just as Ossiblue mentioned to you.

You also say..." Would you rather have me go scew around on my car, cause a spark, get injured,.."

Thart's my point....no, I don't want that, and I said that it was dangerous to have done modifications first ( fire hazard), and THEN have someone say, "I've got a strange problem". Yes...this approach is dangerous, whether Emily Post ettiquette was used or not. Rather that than fires.

Good luck...I'm out.

[Joe Bob]

Either way....didya fix it?

[Danny_Ocean]

Hmm...I have 4 relays in my kit...two high beams (L/R), two low beams (L/R). That's why I mentioned "flip-flopping" them.

Nevermind.

[UrQuattro]

Joe Bob - I'm heading out to take a look at the car in a few minutes. So I'll let ya know once I try the suggestions given to me in this thread.

Wil - I knew how I had ALREADY modified my car - what I was hoping for was that a visual inspection where I could trace which wires went where would give me a potential starting place for this specific setup.

Yes, I followed instructions. The instructions I followed came with the JWest relay kit that I purchased here on pelican. I was frustrated because I couldn't find the instructions, and I had taken notes down when I did the install.

I'm not a newbie to automotive electronics or working on my own car. What I'm new at is working on and modifying my 911.

I know my UrQuattro like the back of my hand and can pull it apart and put it together without much of a problem. But it took a while before I had that familiarity. I got to the point where I unserstood the principles that the audi engineers used to build that very complex car.

All that is thrown out the window when moving to a 911. There is some familiarity here and there, but I am approaching a whole new system. And that is exciting to me. I had become bored with wrenching on the type 85 Audi chassis because I just knew it too well. It became work instead of exploration and education.

So now I get to learn all over again, and that really excites me.

Yah, I know that I have modified the electrical system of the car by adding this relay kit to the headlight circuit. He'll, I modified the car when I went from sugar-scoops to euro style h4s.

My friend (who did almost all of the really difficult fabrication work) helped me install a boreal muffler that supposedly fit the car, but sat too far back in to the rear bumper and valence. He made a really nice bracket that made it unnecessary to use straps to hold the muffler to the car. It uses the factory mount point where the stock muffler bracket goes.

Anyway, whatever. I'm about to overhaul the suspension with larger t-bars, etc etc etc.

I'm learning, sorry I made a mistake. I learn from them.

And really, is it THAT bad if I was someone with minimal experience working on cars and I simply followed the tried and true, quality, simple instructions that ultimately makes the car function better? Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. I don't think that relaying your headlights requires a full understanding of the electrical system. It would be ideal, but it's just unnecessary.

Michael

[Joe Bob]

If you need help let me know....I just did a relay upgrade to my H4 Cibies. BTW, the back of the fuse panel has the listing of fuses that go to what...I need a bright light to see it.

I also have a easy to read wiring diagram for the relay only upgrade.....I can email it to ya.

[UrQuattro]

I got it fixed about 15 minutes after my last post.

It ended up being corrosion on the bottom fuse connection for the left low beam.

The fuse mist have been there for a LONG time. It had a ring of corrosion on it that had eaten into the metal that caused the fuse to be unable to make an actual metal to metal contact. The bottom connector had some white corrosion on it that I cleaned off and did my best to clean the fuse holder to a shine. Then, I put in a new fuse, and I had light.

And that's that.

Too much drama over that, ya think. But GREAT CALL To HARRYD, who first said that he thought that it was a corroded/dirty connector in the fuse box.

I did double check the wire connections all around in there, and to my fairly untrained eyes, things look good. Everything in the car works, so yup, I'm happy right now.

Michael