Is this a real carrera rs ?

[JayJ]

VIN: 9113601288 The guy is selling this on ebay, its been converted to a slant nose turbo, he states its an authentic 73 rs. Im not familiar with the market value on an authentic RS, IS this worth restoring to its original beauty? (if in fact it is for real) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593144133

[Early_S_Man]

Well, the VIN Number is for a '73 RS, but there is nothing in that ad that convinces me that it isn't a bogus fake! And, a badly molested one, at that! I would definitely have to see the importation papers and EPA/DOT certificates before I was convinced! And, the moron has ZERO eBay feedback, so there's no way to check him/her out with past buyers, either!

Now, why does the fact that the jerk wants CASH make me smell a rat? Better have asbestos gloves to handle that 'clear title,' though!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[Jack Olsen]

Warren's right. If that's an authentic VIN, which seems unlikely, then someone, somewhere, has got a special spot reserved for them in one of the lower levels of hell.

What's there to restore? The unique features of the Carrera RS (engine, bodywork, interior) are all gone. Porsche was inconsistent with the use of lighter-weight steel in some of the RSs (at least later in the production run), so you might be looking at a tub that is essentially the same as a T from the same year.

In the one picture the seller shows, you can make out aftermarket seats, steering wheel, a clock, aftermarket door panels, electric windows (?!), aftermarket wheels, butchered bodywork, etc.

I think this car -- if it ever was an RS -- is going to face a future where its VIN is just a curiosity on an otherwise hopped-up Frankenstein. Now, I'm not one to say that there's anything wrong with customizing a 911 (although I'll never understand the allure of street-driven slantnoses), but to do all that to an RS tub is simply ignorant.

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Jack Olsen
My Rennlist home page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 07-09-2001).]

[GIBSON]

Where's the photos? Maybe the best part of the car are the seats. Does look like grey market import sticker on the door jam (a bit hard to make out for sure). Buyer pays ebays fees? Cash?
Buy it as a cobbled up turbo, not an RS, if it turns out to be one then spend the money to convert it back or just take all the money you just spent and buy one that's unmolested.

Bruce Herrmann
73911S

[cegerer]

"Could be brought back to stock with a huge increase in value, parts are available"

Parts are available? From where? Let's see, it would only need the correct motor, body, wheels and interior. I guess the key word there is COULD.

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1971 911T - 2.5L Big Bore

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Porsche planed for 500 cars and managed to squeze "some" more out. Now after # 800 they run out of spevcial made parts and thin sheetmetall the supliers needed time to catch up the demand. The last cars hade normal bodys and not very much special from the first 500 was in them just the axles some reinforcements and the engine.

The very last again received special treatment and other torsion tubes rear seat portion.


Those seats are Fullelectric Recaro Classic they runed at 5000$ pair at Recaro and Gembala sold them for 8000$ well 10 years ago.

Many RS get a special treatment over the years and some wher returned to original condition later some are fake with real numbers, some real ones look like fake.

[CRIS HUERGAS]

I thought I'd share with you guys bits of info I know about this particular RS. I've kinda kept track of this particular RS through friends who have seen it, heard about it and learned more over the years about the what, why and how. First off, it is a real RS car which unfortunately was transformed into a slant nose turbo look by its prior owner who then raced it in the Macau Gran Prix. No its not the F1 Gran Prix race but a sport car race series in Macau.

My first knowledge of this RS existence was back in the late 80s or maybe even early 90s when I first saw it advertised in Pano. What caught my eye was the fact that it was converted into slant nose turbo look and that it was located here in Alameda (S.F. Bay Area). I found it amusing and thought to myself, well there's another RS that bit the dust. I never really followed up on it nor did I even inquire about it since I wasn't interested in even buying it. I thought to myself though that perhaps someday, I will pull into a local gas station and find it and maybe chalk up a discussion with its owner. Never happened. I lost track of it until a few years ago when I heard about it again from a friend. Apparently, it changed hands from the Alameda owner to its current owner somewhere in the North Bay Area. A couple of friends expressed some interest but it soon went away when the issue of restoration and its cost prohibitiveness was brought up.

Without going too much in detail about why it was done, all I can say is that the owner then had lots of money and wanted a wide body slant nose look. Maybe it never dawned on them to think that the 73 RS would be a highly prized collectible 911 and didn't think anything of keeping it original. Remember many early 911s were converted into various forms of wide body look during those years and they took the form of RSR, 930, 934s, 935s and those slant nose conversion

Nonetheless, the modifications were done and now its an RS with (to use a term from Keith Martin of Sports Car Market) a "story". From what I've learned, the current 930 engine is very potent and a real strong runner. It is from a real 930 car and it cost someone a pretty penny to have it rebuilt. (not sure who did it, and when) I never had any interest in the car, other than my curiosity about its history (the how and why). I think that somewhere out there, an RS buff is waiting in the wings to rescue this car and maybe, they have the motivation (which many of us don't have) and the money to burn (i know I don't have it), in addition to the energy (i'd rather build another R Gruppe liteweight 911) it will take to try and resurrect this car to original. More power to them.

What is it worth right now? hard to say, the auction should give some indication as to what the market will bear. It'll still be cost prohibitive to bring it back to original but its not impossible. Real RS serial numbered engines are rare but not impossible to find. I know of at least two early 911s with real RS serial numbered engine which,though not for sale, can be had for the "right price". The 930 engine and the slant nose body panels could also be sold to subsidize and offset some of the cost of the restoration and the purchase of original early 911 panels. Please don't try and engage me in a discussion about the pros and cons of this as i am not posting this to elicit that kind of a response, i am merely providing my own thoughts and my own views about this RS.

I don't even care to add up what the restoration cost will be for this project unless I was prepared to do it myself. Its a lot of work and takes a lot of patience and lots and lots of $$$$$. But then again, there are some of us who will fit that bill and may find it fun and challenging. What can I say, some of us are just a glutton for punishment. But hey, as long as they know what they're getting into and they're having fun, I say GO FOR IT.

godspeed,

Cris Huergas
R Gruppe

[cegerer]

Wow, interesting story. What would a fully restored RS be worth today?

[roger911s]

The VIN's probably the only thing that IS real. I personally like the d**tbag's last little touch: "buyer pays e-bay fees"

[This message has been edited by roger911s (edited 07-10-2001).]

[jsmarcus]

Still no bids...... hmmmm.......

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Josh
Black on Black '84 Carrera

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Well it is not worth to think about reconverting. It only would pay back if the car had been a rare lighwight or had FIA papers and race history.

Many RS where convertet and upgraded.
I know one who has now a 993 lookalike body and still races the ring.

Also tuners like DP, Gemballa or Ruf used RS to upgrade them in variuos stages.

Mostly the owners where forced due to corrosion to do something with the body. Also many cars had accidents and received new look after that.

The RS was very sought in the 80´s to make those 934 and 935 lookalikes. The RS body is a that stiffer and especially the rear axle is strong enough to handle wide rims. On the normal axles the TÜV only alowed 9" and if you had a good day they allowed to use the 11" factory Fuchs as they are actuall only 10,,5" and much lighter then the welded repros ( Well back then the 11" forged fuchs still costet a fortune ). With the boxed RS arms and the reinforcements to the torion tube you could get 11" without any Problem ( letter from Porsche said it is a "stock" size ) and even 15" passed TÜV requirements.

Now if we cut out the RS story it still is a loaded car and someone didn´t had to cut down on the money on that project.

I just wished to see more pictures.

Whoever is buying that car will have to like it that way. There are to much originals ( 1590 build, oh -12) around to start retroverting that car.

The RS VIN will not boost to much in value. It would had been more clverer from the owner not to mention the RS history so noone would have focused on the RS thing and only experts would have recognized the 360 digit.

Seeing the marked in germany the car will not sale easy. Slant nose is somehow dead even factory slants are hard to sale. People like to see the 911 with a face as the 996 has lost that.

Grüsse