Help! Front tires hitting fenders!

[tgrimmett]

So, I just picked up an '84 Carrera last week. I've been reading alot on this site and getting to know what it is like to own a Porsche. The car is pretty solid, but I do have one iterating problem that I was hoping someone has seen before and might offer some advice on. When I am driving on a slightly bumpy road, I can hear the right front tire scrapping something. When I got out and took a look yesterday, I could see a piece of the metal fender, closest to the top of the tire, bent down and out. I also saw pieces of rubber tire frayed off on the corner of the tire - where the sidewall meets the tread. I'll try to post some pictures here. This metal is thin enough to bend back flat, but I don't think this will solve the overall problem. If I were to guess, the tire is hitting the fender and grabbing the metal and pulling it out and down. I just noticed it is happening on the left side too. When I measure the clearance at the closest point - between the top of the tire and the edge of the fender, it is about 3/4". This seems very small, given the suspension has to flex somewhat. What is a typical clearance? I haven't measured the rear tire/fender clearance but it sure looks more than that.

I know the PO swapped out some old wheels for the current Fuchs right before selling it, and the tires look brand new. They are Riken Raptors - 205/55/16 and the pressure is about 30lbs.

Anyone have any ideas? I've stopped driving as I know that it will soon shred through the tire completely.

[Flat6pac]

I think its the tire on your other right side...
If you have 7 inch wheels youre sticking out too much and you need to research rolling the fender lip.
16x7 Fuchs with 205 rubber has a tenancy to rub on a bottom out.
Bruce

[Racerbvd]

I assume you have 7X16s up front, that is a common problem, that is easily fixed by rolling your fenders, do a search here to see the best way and if anyone here is close enough to help you..

[porschenut]

A very common problem that every 911 owner is aware of. Yes, the sidewall is grabbing the lip and pulling it down.

You can solve the problem by raising the ride height, or by rolling the fender lip (you should do this anyway). The 205/55/16 is stock tire size for the 84 Carrera so there's no problem there. if your ride height is correct, there should be no rubbing even without rolling the fender lips. Make sure there are no wheel spacers pushing the wheels out farther than they should be.

[Wil Ferch]

You don't mention the Fuchs width in the front. Tire size is normal for front. 6 inch is normal for front yet some people run 7" width in front....some with and some without rubbing problems. Also, you don't mention front ride height. "Euro" is about 25.5" from center of fender cut-out to ground....most US cars come in around 26" or a bit more.

You can do any or all of...increase front ride height, cut back a portion of the fender lip, "roll" the fender lip, go back to 6" Fuchs if 7" are fitted, or run a bit more negative camber ( top of wheel a bit "in" toward car).

Tell us at least if you have 6" or 7" Fuchs ( pics from outside will define) and ride height measurements.

[tcar]

What size is the wheel? 6x16 or 7x16?

Is it a 911 wheel? Part number starts with 911 or is it a 951?

Is there a spacer or adapter behind the wheel (he may have needed on for the other wheels)?

That's the correct stock tire size for the front.

Your car has been lowered to "Euro' height. I have 7's with euro height and they have never rubbed.

Roll the fender?

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by tgrimmett

I know the PO swapped out some old wheels for the current Fuchs right before selling it, and the tires look brand new.

The "rolling the fender" comments are good ones, but IMO it's important to know exactly what you're dealing with first.

I'd pull the wheels off and make sure there's no spacers behind those Fuchs, just in case. If the PO had some aftermarket wheels on there it's possible that he used a spacer that maybe didn't get removed by mistake, which might be contributing to your problem

In addition, it will allow you to get the Part Numbers of the Fuchs that are on there, in order to properly determine if they are indeed the proper ones, with the proper offset.

This chart shows all the offsets and backspaces for OEM Porsche wheels.

911 Wheel Weights

[tgrimmett]

Cool. I'll read up about that fender rolling stuff. I don't know what size Fuchs they are. I have attached a picture of them and it sounds like I need to pull the wheels off to find out for sure which I'll do tonight, plus measure the ride height. Is the 7 in 7x16 the width of the wheel itself? I think the PO had phone dial wheels before, if I am not mistaken. Here's a pic of the old ones and the new Fuchs.

[Gogar]

See, those are early 964 wheels, which I believe require a spacer to fit <1989 cars properly, so it can't hurt to just pull those Fuchs off to make sure exactly what's going on.

[WIL84911]

Maybe you need more negative camber adjustment. Most of us here run the same size tire & 7 inch rims up front. I'm even lowered beyond Euro with no rubbing issues.

[Flieger]

Might of left the spacer on from the 964 wheels.

[HarryD]

Good advice above. Check if you have a spacers in the front. Also check your ride height.

Check your rears to be sure you have no rubbing inside the fender.

I just went through this and since I did not want to raise my car, after rollingthe affected fenders, I ended up putting in stiffer T-bars and increasing my negative camber.

[tgrimmett]

Thanks for all of your replies. I checked my height and it is 24.5" from top of fender cutout to ground. So if I measured correctly this is an inch lower than the euro height? How does one raise and lower the height? Also, I have not pulled the wheels off yet, but I can see what looks like a 1/4" spacer between the hub and the wheel. So it sounds like I need to get in there and pull that off. Should I expect the lug nuts to still fit and not bottom out? Sorry for all of the questions but I am the quintessential newbie!

[rusnak]

That happens from turning into a concrete ramp/ driveway. Just let off the brakes before hitting the ramp. The car will rise up, and give you more clearance. Also, more negative camber helps.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by tgrimmett

Thanks for all of your replies. I checked my height and it is 24.5" from top of fender cutout to ground. So if I measured correctly this is an inch lower than the euro height? How does one raise and lower the height? Also, I have not pulled the wheels off yet, but I can see what looks like a 1/4" spacer between the hub and the wheel. So it sounds like I need to get in there and pull that off. Should I expect the lug nuts to still fit and not bottom out? Sorry for all of the questions but I am the quintessential newbie!

You are at a good right height. I think it may be a combination of the spacers and camber. Also, looking at the first picture, the car looks "odd". What are the ground to fender lip heights at all four wheels?

[Gogar]

Lose the spacer; roll the fenders if you like, and drive like hell!

[4flyboy]

Roll 'em. Check your local Craigslist. Usually a couple of guys advertising in there. Get someone qualified. Our paint is old and cracking is an issue. Luck. S

[IROC]

Originally Posted by tgrimmett

Thanks for all of your replies. I checked my height and it is 24.5" from top of fender cutout to ground. So if I measured correctly this is an inch lower than the euro height? How does one raise and lower the height? Also, I have not pulled the wheels off yet, but I can see what looks like a 1/4" spacer between the hub and the wheel. So it sounds like I need to get in there and pull that off. Should I expect the lug nuts to still fit and not bottom out? Sorry for all of the questions but I am the quintessential newbie!

If you truly have a spacer installed I would remove it. You should still have room in the lug nuts.

Removing the spacer should solve the problem, but I have seen totally stock Carreras do this same thing (one of my students at a track event had this happen on a completely stock 1988 Carrera).

[Wil Ferch]

I keep on posting this....people say "this fits"....and "this doesn't"....and keep the discussion only to the tire *size*....yet need to ID the tire brand name AND model, along with all the other variables. Some 205's are nearly an inch wider ( tread or section width) than others...and some treads are "square shouldered" and some are "round-shouldered".

For my previous 85 Carrera, I ran 205's on 7" Fuchs front, but didn't go below 25.5" front fender lip measurement, and ran anywhere from neg 0.5 degrees to almost neg -1.0 degrees camber.

I either *had* or *didn't have* rubbing problems..... as I kept these settings and only replaced front tires with various brand names as time went on...all 205/55-16's.

[nesslar]

Agreed, and as I posted in another thread just the other day, the differences you speak of are quite substantial! Or at least they were back when I experienced them; so they remain lacking of a "standard", which comes as no surprise to me.