I rebuild engine but it doesn't start, help !!!

[930cab89]

No cough at all. I'm pretty sure everything is correct now with the distributor. I put the wires like shown on the sticker in the engine bay and it shows that the distributor turns counter clockwise so that should be ok. I'll post a few pics this evening.
Thanks for the help.

[moneymanager]

Take a look at these notes I made a while back while having the same problem you are having. You might think about the test light trick and the "listen to air" trick. I still think that timing is the odds on favorite for your problem and I've been in this exact same (frustrating) predicament, solved for me only when I tried the air pressure trick. Jim

"Reinstalled but timing was wrong. Redid placement of distributor shaft following Haynes, p.85, 5.2-5. (Set crankcase mark to Z, with rotor pointed to cylinder #1 or ~ 4 PM. Remove rotor. Use alligator clips to attach test lamp to hot (only) lead on distributor & to ground. Turn motor backward ~15° toward cylinder 5. Turn on ignition, check to see if test light is on. If it is, turn engine backward a bit more. Repeat till light is off. Be sure you are really looking at the timing for cylinder #1, not #5 (which would be wrong.) If you have moved the Z mark more than 30°, you are likely dealing with #5 just before it in firing order, & you may need to move the distributor rotor one tooth clockwise & try again. This is not a very good description, but the idea is to have the test light go on when the crank gets to the Z mark as it is rotated from the #5 firing position as observed on the rotor to the #1 firing position (ignition on during this rotation.)
Car still didn’t start. So I had primary power (indicated by the test light) & correct timing, but no starting. Points aren’t grounded or test light check above wouldn’t have worked. Current goes from battery to switch to small red wire into MSD box, from which emerge wires to & from the coil primary & the trigger wire thru the points to ground. MSD is getting trigger signals. Also, MSD web site test below says MSD & coil fine.
Distributor a tooth off? No. There are 12 teeth at the bottom of the distributor, so each tooth is 30° from the next & a move of “one distributor tooth” clockwise or counterclockwise changes the distributor position by 30°. The distributor turns 1 turn for each two turns of the crank & each spark plug is fired every other turn of the crank. Not sure how this translates, but being one distributor tooth off is either 15 or 60° at the flywheel I think… a lot either way.
Earlier, got distributor in 180° off! Reset crank at “Z”. Positioned distributor shaft so rotor is directly over filed mark at position #1. Rotated motor back a bit toward 5 with test light across distributor contact, then came forward toward cylinder 1. I was close. Moved distributor case a bit to get opening of points just at “Z”… as suggested in Haynes. Tried again to start. Nothing. At this point, timing seemed right, trigger circuit was working, points were opening properly, & there was electricity from the MSD per their test below. Problem: timing was 180° off; not revealed by anything done above! I finally did this: unscrewed #1 plug about 7/8 of the way… this lets a bit of air come out & yields a sound you can hear when you turn motor clockwise to the firing point on #1 cylinder. Just listen for the sound of exiting air; you won’t hear it when crank is 360° off as valve(s) are open. (Re timing: there are two revs for firing cycle… 720°. Intake opens at zero & stays open to 212°, then closes from 212° to 360° where it fires until 510° (the full 360 + 150° more.) It then opens at 150° (exhaust leaves) & closes at 10° before top dead center.. & for these 17° you should hear air being pushed out.) Car started instantly after reset!

[T77911S]

firing order on the engine bay???

does it have the firing order or a picture of the engine with 123456 on it? what firing order did you use?


if the timing is correct and firing order is correct, it may be mixture related, something with the FV, or the relay controlling the FV. make sure the eletronic sided of the system is correct.

[930cab89]

I've discovered a second problem. The gas pumps didn't work so I bypassed the relay and now at least the engine coughs but still doesn't start.

Here are some pictures :

First of the decal in the engine bay of the firing order. I connected all the spark cables following these indications.



Here you see the Z1 mark aligned. I put a stick in cylinder one and it's at TDC.



And finally the distributor with the rotor aligned with the marking.



Could it still be one tooth off? If yes, in what direction?

[agfours]

My money is on moneymanager....make sure you're on the compression stroke at TDC.

[moneymanager]

Have you told us if the wires going into the distributor went in counterclockwise starting at 1? Your pictures are fine but you could still not be on the compression stroke. But you're sure you got that right with the valve cover off?

[jimbauman]

Where are you located? Maybe a local Pelican can provide an extra set of eyes.....

JB

[930cab89]

I'm in France...

I rotated the distributor one extra tooth and now it starts. The engine doesn't run on it's own however. If I stop the starter, the engine dies. What could this be related to?

[brads911sc]

sounds like you are 180 out.

also, what are you running fuel wise? CIS? When I switched to ITB's and a more agressive cam I needed to add a vacuum canister to smooth out the idle because the cams were not allowing enough vacuum to rrun the EFI at idle smoothly.

[ericsiemens]

I hate to ask something really obvious, but I've seen it happen: Have you double checked all of your possible air leaks?

[Flat6pac]

When you are on Z1, #1 the intake valve will be loose as the valve adjustment .1mm. If the valve is tight, you are 180 out because you re on the intake cycle, 180 out. You need the leading edge of the rotor lining up with the notch on the distributor with the #1 plug wire in the proper hole, just to the left of the clip for the cap.
Bruce

[Rich Lambert]

Originally Posted by 930cab89

I'm in France...

I rotated the distributor one extra tooth and now it starts. The engine doesn't run on it's own however. If I stop the starter, the engine dies. What could this be related to?

Did you add a new ignition system? Check to see that the (+) power to the box doesn't cut-off when the key is moved from the start position. Been there...done that.

[930cab89]

Everything is stock, CIS and ignition included. I've changed all the gaskets of the injection system so there should be (I hope) no air leaks. If there are, that would complicate the whole situation!

If the distributor is 180° off, the engine doesn't start at all, right? Mine now starts so maybe I'm just 1 or 2 (is this possible?) teeth off. I'll try the air pressure trick Jim suggested and verify with a flash light.

[930cab89]

And my cables go like this: #1 plug wire in the hole just to the right of the clip for the cap and then 6, 2, 4, 3 5 (counter clock wise).

[Flat6pac]

in the proper hole, just to the left of the clip for the cap.
Bruce
Yesterday, 08:35 PM

[Flat6pac]

This is a ccw distributor set on TDC for #1. You can see the mark on the edge and the #1 wire should be right above it.
Bruce

[930cab89]

On the 89 turbo, I think #1 should be on the right of the clip as the distributor turns counter clockwise.

[930cab89]

Let's now suppose that the distributor is set ok, what else could make the engine cough? It starts for a quarter second and then dies and sometimes there is a bang with some smoke. I'm getting deseperate now.

[kodioneill]

Time to bring in a Pro. Sounds like you're lost I would get some help from a local Tech.

[moneymanager]

Give the light/air pressure trick a try before moving on. You have got to absolutely rule out being 180° out.