Help ASAP Lien sale scam? can you get a Vin# w/ Engine,trans, production#?

[Blackbyrd]

I found a car for sale that has a lien sale by a tow yard.

Date in was 12/11/10
date of sale 02/02/11


All the paper work looks in order and I'm going to go to the DMV tomorrow with the seller to verify everything and try to put the chassis under my name to guarantee everything is correct

My question is

Can you verify that the Vin: WP0ZZZ91ZES150223 matches
(this vin is all over the paper work but no where to be found on the chassis)


with:

Engine number# 63E00440
Transmission number #74E01735
and Chassis production number #1140369

Other than the front tub, Window post, door jam is there anywhere else to find a vin number on a chassis ? hidden ???

Through Porsche records or something ????
The chassis is missing both vin due to damage and who knows what.
The seller claims the local detectives were able to find the vin because of possible records and that the owner came forward with registration ???
sounds funny....Im just trying to protect my self and my mechanic if we do any work.
I'm having doubts buying this car but with 60k on the 3.2 engine it sounds like too much of a good deal to pass up.



Front clip is gone (totaled then cut off)


Any one have a Carfax ?

[john walker's workshop]

buy it for the parts and cut up the rest. who cares about any vin at this point? you have the bill of sale for the remote possibility that anyone ever asks where the engine came from. why even go to the DMV and register it?

[Blackbyrd]

Trying to cover my rear end as well as my mechanic.

I would want to register it to have proof that the seller is legally allowed to sell it.
Maybe there is a dispute going on ??? and hes not allowed to sell it but is doing so to off the thing quickly ??


I spent a good few hours last night reading on this forum some the legal stuff for lien sales..ect
I though you had to go to a court judge...ect..ect


The plan is to junk the body afterwords.... and not get my personal car taken away when I add the junk cars engine.


This really caught my eye:

Posted by Clickclickboom:

California Vehicle Code:
10750.**(a) No person shall intentionally deface, destroy, or alter the motor number, other distinguishing number, or identification mark of a vehicle required or employed for registration purposes without written authorization from the department, nor shall any person place or stamp any serial, motor, or other number or mark upon a vehicle, except one assigned thereto by the department.
(b) This section does not prohibit the restoration by an owner of the original vehicle identification number when the restoration is authorized by the department, nor prevent any manufacturer from placing in the ordinary course of business numbers or marks upon new motor vehicles or new parts thereof.

10751.**(a) No person shall knowingly buy, sell, offer for sale, receive, or have in his or her possession, any vehicle, or component part thereof, from which any serial or identification number, including, but not limited to, any number used for registration purposes, that is affixed by the manufacturer to the vehicle or component part, in whatever manner deemed proper by the manufacturer, has been removed, defaced, altered, or destroyed, unless the vehicle or component part has attached thereto an identification number assigned or approved by the department in lieu of the manufacturer's number..
(b) Whenever a vehicle described in subdivision (a), including a vehicle assembled with any component part which is in violation of subdivision (a), comes into the custody of a peace officer, it shall be destroyed, sold, or otherwise disposed of under the conditions as provided in an order by the court having jurisdiction. No court order providing for disposition shall be issued unless the person from whom the property was seized, and all claimants to the property whose interest or title is on registration records in the Department of Motor Vehicles, are provided a postseizure hearing by the court having jurisdiction within 90 days after the seizure. This subdivision shall not apply with respect to a seized vehicle or component part used as evidence in any criminal action or proceeding. Nothing in this section shall, however, preclude the return of a seized vehicle or a component part to the owner by the seizing agency following presentation of satisfactory evidence of ownership and, if determined necessary, upon the assignment of an identification number to the vehicle or component part by the department.
(c) Whenever a vehicle described in subdivision (a) comes into the custody of a peace officer, the person from whom the property was seized, and all claimants to the property whose interest or title is on registration records in the Department of Motor Vehicles, shall be notified within five days, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays, after the seizure, of the date, time, and place of the hearing required in subdivision (b). The notice shall contain the information specified in subdivision (d).

10752.**(a) No person shall, with intent to prejudice, damage, injure, or defraud, acquire, possess, sell, or offer for sale any genuine or counterfeit manufacturer's serial or identification number from or for, or purporting to be from or for, a vehicle or component part thereof.
(b) No person shall, with intent to prejudice, damage, injure, or defraud, acquire, possess, sell, or offer for sale any genuine or counterfeit serial or identification number issued by the department, the Department of the California Highway Patrol, or the vehicle registration and titling agency of any foreign jurisdiction which is from or for, or purports to be from or for, a vehicle or component part thereof.



I still need some good solid advice here....

Maybe the police report as well ???


If there is a lawyer or someone who can really get me some awesome details on how to make all this legally work I'd be willing to hook that person up with some free parts


These are the photos of the chassis.

Previous owner was trying to cut it up.
This is the seller garage of the towing place.... he took the chassis to a private garage.... sounds half legit when he told the "story"
but like I said im trying to protect my self and my mechanic doing the engine install

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by Blackbyrd

I found a car for sale that has a lien sale by a tow yard.
Date in was 12/11/10
date of sale 02/02/11
All the paper work looks in order and I'm going to go to the DMV tomorrow with the seller to verify everything and try to put the chassis under my name to guarantee everything is correct
My question is
Can you verify that the Vin: WP0ZZZ91ZES150223 matches
(this vin is all over the paper work but no where to be found on the chassis)
with:
Engine number# 63E00440
Transmission number #74E01735
and Chassis production number #1140369

Other than the front tub, Window post, door jam is there anywhere else to find a vin number on a chassis ? hidden ???

Through Porsche records or something ????
The chassis is missing both vin due to damage and who knows what.
The seller claims the local detectives were able to find the vin because of possible records and that the owner came forward with registration ???
sounds funny....Im just trying to protect my self and my mechanic if we do any work.
I'm having doubts buying this car but with 60k on the 3.2 engine it sounds like too much of a good deal to pass up.
Front clip is gone (totaled then cut off)
Any one have a Carfax ?

Does the ‘chassis build number’ #1140369 still exist?
This is on the dash to the right and below the radio opening.
You must remove the right knee pad to see it.

I would get a State “VIN Inspection” by a law enforcement officer or other authorized person.
This will get you paperwork tying the paperwork to the actual car.
Law enforcement can track the ‘chassis build number’ #1140369 back to the VIN.
That should agree with the paperwork VIN.

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

buy it for the parts and cut up the rest. who cares about any vin at this point? you have the bill of sale for the remote possibility that anyone ever asks where the engine came from. why even go to the DMV and register it?

I think this is a potentially dangerous route.
The risk is the engine number, transmission number or ‘chassis build number’ appears in the FBI NCIC.
You can’t find out without a query by law enforcement.
If the query gets a ‘hit’, they are legally obligated to pursue it.

If there is some problem like this, you want to find out before you are owner.
You absolutely don’t want to find yourself in a ‘situation’ after you resell something.

You can contract to buy the car subject to whatever you want.
I would want a physical inspection by law enforcement, the numbers to clear NCIC, and to know the paperwork matches the car.

Best,
Grady

[Blackbyrd]

HI Grady,

First off thank you for the response.

The seller states that the reason how they got the vin was because
The law got involved.....and tracked the numbers down...so his story goes.
But I would think he would need alot more than 2 months to do all this inspections ??


I want to go to the same detective he went to and have them pull up the paper work/Report for this. So I can have it in my hand as proof.

[Joe Bob]

Unless you have a clear title in hand.....it's a parts car. If they have a license to sell salvage get something on their letterhead noting the license and indemnifying yer ass for any issues. Trust but verify....Ronny (the bomb) Reagan.

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by Blackbyrd

HI Grady,

First off thank you for the response.

The seller states that the reason how they got the vin was because
The law got involved.....and tracked the numbers down...so his story goes.
But I would think he would need alot more than 2 months to do all this inspections ??


I want to go to the same detective he went to and have them pull up the paper work/Report for this. So I can have it in my hand as proof.

Get a copy of the police report.
That should tell the story.

I think the reason to get a title (it should be a ‘salvage title’) is so you can turn the title back in as ‘destroyed’.
Most states allow you to file an affidavit to be in the DMV file.
That should include all the info you find and images of the destruction process.

It may be the missing VIN is now on another car.
I agree, get a Carfax on WP0ZZZ91ZES150223.
If build #1140369 comes up with a different VIN, a Carfax may show it registered somewhere.
If this is the case, the police should follow the lead.

You are correct to cya.

Best,
Grady

[Canada Kev]

That VIN is from an RoW car. There will be no tag or plate under the windshield on the A-pillar. Mine is located on the plate on the inside fender area inside the frunk on the passenger side. There's another fairly obvious one, but I can't remember where it is. If it's important, I can go look for you...

Getting a law enforcement confirmation of the number that's on the paperwork is likely a very prudent course of action to cover your a55. You're not going to register it, but the major components do have serial numbers that ARE traceable.

[Blackbyrd]

Hey Grady


Get a copy of the police report.
That should tell the story.

This is what I'm after:

I think the reason to get a title (it should be a ‘salvage title’) is so you can turn the title back in as ‘destroyed’.

Legal proof that it was titled and I can legally destroy it to have piece of mind.

The seller offered to take the chassis back and have it destroyed through the sellers
towing business....but I was a bit skeptical of this.


I bit the bullet and decided to do the carfax report.
(Any one need some tokens ?)


The "Carfuchs" report:



07/01/1999 38,304 California
Inspection Station
San Francisco, CA Failed emissions inspection
07/01/1999 Service Facility
San Francisco, CA Vehicle serviced
07/13/1999 38,481 Service Facility
San Francisco, CA Vehicle serviced
07/13/1999 California
Inspection Station
San Francisco, CA Passed emissions inspection
08/02/1999 38,509 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
San Francisco, CA Odometer reading reported
08/06/1999 California
Motor Vehicle Dept. Title issued or updated
Not built to US standards
08/11/1999 Oregon
Motor Vehicle Dept.
San Francisco, CA
Title #9922308103 Title issued or updated
Duplicate title issued
08/19/1999 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
San Francisco, CA Title issued or updated
03/12/2002 46,297 Service Facility
San Francisco, CA Vehicle serviced
03/12/2002 California
Inspection Station
San Francisco, CA Passed emissions inspection
08/26/2005 56,353 California
Inspection Station Passed emissions inspection
08/02/2008 60,965 California
Inspection Station Passed emissions inspection



The the Fuchs said"


-----> "Hmm, we haven't received any information on this car since August 2008. Before you buy, ask the seller for recent service or repair records."


This might explain why the car looks a little rusty and feels a little moist....maybe sitting for 2 years..????? some stuff does look muddy. Also this could have given detectives enough time to inspect the car.

I guess the guy who crashed the car didn't want to tell the insurance company?
Or wanted to dump the chassis ?
Since there is no report on there about an accident or the police involvement.

pretty interesting.

[rpmgroup]

I am guessing that he is in calif, to file a lien, some proof of vin needs to exist and he said that the local PoPo found the numbers and the seller was going with him, he would be alright. I have done dozens of liens in calif, both under and over 1,000 dollars( calif's mark for a plus sale and waiting period) and the biggest problem is the back fees.

[Blackbyrd]

also the previous owner seems to have lived in San Francisco....
but when I did my research of the person who they mailed the letter of lien to it was a magazine shop in Manhattan beach.

I wonder if he/she is on this board.(san Francisco) any PCA,POC or registry records of this vin other wise ?

The car has some mods done by an enthusiast and aren't commonly found on typical 911s.
Also the valve covers looked they had been recently serviced, I could see the lime/teal green gaskets looking extra clean

I didnt believe the white face gauge when it said 60k miles

The engine fan sure looked like 20-40k miles.


I got a PM from a member interested in the car:


title: Lien Sale Car
Great project/parts car. Should you pass on the car, I would like to buy it. Let me know what price it would take.
Thanks,



My response:

If I can't buy it then it means it's illegal and you could get in trouble too.
Also I think its some how illegal for me to pass this information own knowing I know it's stolen with the proof on this forum as well.

I couldn't pass this information on to others.
I'm posting facts on here to see if any one knows this car and for legal help as well.