Adam,
I understand what your intension is, but you can't do that.
It can come back and bite you in too many ways. You may have to find a good old tub and use all your newer stuff on it. A good rust proofing shop can help you out while the tub is bare.

I have to be honest here, I'm a little upset by the way that some of you have responded to my post.

I can understand some kidding around all that, hell, I'd do it too, but some of the excessive sarcasm and comments are bothersome.

I have a problem, I'm moving to an area where there is smog nazis and I'm also getting ripped off by my insurance company (In my opinion). I was simply brainstorming some creative solutions to my problems.

I was always taught that no question was stupid and the responses that I got to my innocent question were simply 'appaling'.

Its really unfortunate that some of the attitude that started on the 944 board has made its way here...

Adam Roseneck

P.S. larkja: I am a member of MENSA, you really should see if you could become a member, its quite interesting. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

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1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

I dno't know about the VIN, but I do know about license plates. So here's a lttle story to break the tension.
Back when I was 18 or 19, I traded with a friend by 66 Bug for a 62 Bug, less motors and tranny. I had the 1835 and built tranny. To avoid having to go through the DMV with registration and sales transfer we decided to switch the license plates as well. I was thinking, what the hell, no one will ever know.
Anyways, one night while cruising (we did that back then) I was pulled over. For some reason the cops decided to check the plates against the VIN. So there I was while the cops tore up the interior of the car only to discover the VIN did not match the plates. Threats of fraud and stolen vehicles were asserted by the cops. But I explained the situation, and the friend I had switched the plates with was with me. The cop got the same story from them. The cops told me to go straight home (out of their jx) and correct the problem. iwas lucky.
Imagine what would happen if a cop who knows P-cars. He pulls you over to look at your 83 Targa (hypo) and being the P-car enthusits he is, notices the VIN is for a 71T. He's going to be suspicious and start tearing your car apart. You may not be as lucky as me.
I agree with your intentions, however. Check it out with the DMV and let us know. I too would like to "convert" my 78 to a pre-74 for smo purposes.


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Paul
78SC Targa

Adam, for what its worth.... I realized what your intent was and also have contimplated doing the same thing. Why do people always assume the worst? If the smog tests tested what the issue is (clean air) I wouldn't have such an issue. However, what the hell diff does it make if the car is missing component "A" but still burns clean as a whistle? If I ever see big brother in person I'm gunna kick his ass.

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

Sounds good, in my rant I forgot to thank those of you who are contributing good information.

Mark, check your email http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Adam Roseneck

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1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

There's a difference between intelligence and common sense. It drove me nuts in college when people with lacking common sense set the curve - c'est la vie. MENSA - not even going to comment except to say, yea right.

Re. the VIN swap, I think you're getting so much flack because of the obvious negative repercussions of your initial post. I have posted and responded to quite a few technical postings as well as inquired for advice.

But please, use some common sense in your postings.

Thanks

Mark,
Timmy McViegh saw big brother and punched him right in the eye. See what it got him?
Trouble is, big brother lives next door, goes to your church, and posts on this board.
Anyone who works for the government is big brother, and there in lies the problem.

As for the smog/insurance/VIN problem, there is always a way around everything. You'll think of something. Jack Olson did it, I did it, Mark did it, and others. You can too. Read the laws - closely.

Adam, this is all hypothetical (your post and my response). My sincere apologies if I upset you, that was not my intention. I was firing back at the idea in the post (this does happen all the time and people get away with it, for a time).

I understand that you are not the type of person who would commit such an act, and likes to throw his ideas at the wall and see what falls. Good luck with your car http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Rarly,

ROFLMAO

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

Hey Adam,

I didn't take the time to read every post, but I did notice that the first response gave you the green light on your hypothetical. As a criminal defense attorney in New York, and without going into details, leave your VIN's where they are. The last thing you need is a felony hanging over your head. As you know, each VIN is coded for the options, etc.. of the car it came on. NY has a law that calls for criminal charges whenever police discover that a VIN has been changed or swithched on ANY body part. That's about it. Leave that kind of stuff to my clients. HAVE FUN. Regards to all of you.


JON
'85 targa

Better late than never. I have never read in the purchase of my autos, a license agreement that suggests to me I cannot modify my own property.
When you buy windows 98, you're informed that the software package is not yours. It's Microsoft's. You're just "using" it.
When I bought my car, it became my property. If I want to take a blow torch to it I can.
If I want to f'ing cut out the VIN area of one of MY Cars and put it on another of MY cars, I can.
Screw big f'ing brother. That's right Uncle Sam, I said kiss my big hairy @ss.
It is my duty to kick an oppressive g'vt in the ass and send it to the gallows. Screw you, and the Democrats you rode in on.


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Kurt B
1984 Carrera Cabriolet
911 Page
carrera_cabriolet@yahoo.com

Kurt, you are wrong on both moral and legal grounds.

- roGER

About 15 years ago we got a 911 shell (no front or rear fenders or top from VP in Hermosa to build a Turbo look. The guy had a wrecked 911 that supplied the drivetrain and Suspenion. After the car was done the owner went doen to DMV to have the vin transfered, then came the bad news if he had informed the DMV before the car was done it could of had the vin transfered to the replacement shell (bill of sale from VP listed the shell with a replacement part #) but because the car was completed this could not be done. It was issued a Special Constuction vin #, Opps there go's the resale value. Try contacting the DMV and tell them you want to use the early car as a replacement part to "fix" your car then they migth issue an authorization to change the vin.Steve

RarlyL8... What are you talking about by reading the laws closely?


Hell yah!! Amen Kurt!

The thing that burns me up these days is the use of a Social Security number for everything instead of just the SS people like it was intended. Pet peev. When I try to argue with people requesting my SS# they blow it off and say this is the way it is... What if I am an illegal alien? http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Blow torch the car if you want to.

And if tree huggers and CAB (CA Clean Air Board) want to ***** about polution try bio-diesel! Did anyone else laugh and cry about the article in the recent Car & Driver?



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

Hello

This issue is handled different in the world and there are many interessting things that happend.

In germany the laws are maybe more stringent on that. But the german way would be lets say you have a accident and replace the frontend by a salvaged newer frontend witch unfortunatly has a other VIN#. Now the rules are you are not allowed to change any numbers by deleting them. If you have put on a new frontend you have to prove the paperwork and then the old chassisnumber is Xed over. But only slight so you can see the old VIN#. The other VIN is stamped beside that area. If you get a new frontend Porsche can prove the papers and stamp the VIN.

Now this is the best way to walk the thin line.

Grüsse

What is the Mensa entering level in the US ? Do you also have the 1% rule ?

Now we're getting somewhere, some great ideas commingout. I especailly like the one about going to the DMV and seeing when they say. Afterall, the front end is wrecked and it was in the plan to switch out the front end. Somthing to look in to anyways.

If you have any more suggestions I would love to hear them.

Roland, from my experiences I seem to recall that the entrance is actually the top 2%. Check the Mensa international website www.mensa.org.

Adam Roseneck


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1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

[This message has been edited by atr911 (edited 07-13-2001).]

What about the labels on seat cushions that read:
“DO NOT REMOVE UNDER PENALITY OF LAW”

Can you remove them? Sure if it belongs to you. You can do what you want to your own property.

The problem with the VIN is I don’t think you can actually change it. You may be able to remove and replace the plate with the VIN on it but the VIN is stamped all over the car, and even etched in much of the glass.

The factory uses special stamps that make weird letters and numbers, easy to read but hard to copy. On most American cars the VIN is on the frame, and several other places. One common place is on top of the firewall, easily seen looking through the cowl grill. My BMW also has its VIN stamped in the same place.

Detectives know where all of the VINs are stamped, and don’t mind scratching a little paint to read them.

I understand your plight, so don’t think for a moment I’m lecturing, just trying to be informative.

It's not as easy as it seems.

"Read the laws closely" was a reference to emissions and the CARB. Certain years are exempt, will become exempt, are partially exempt, etc. Do your homework on all the relevent issues before you buy a donor shell.

This is what I did with my SC. I wanted a 911 of at least that vintage, but old enough to become smog exempt in a short amount of time should I move anywhere that uses California style smog BS. '78 is the oldest SC you can get, it will be 25 in 2003. You also get cheaper insurance rates.

I wouldn't mess with VIN numbers, too many potential problems. Would you risk loosing your hand built dream car because of a VIN discrepancy?

atr911,
I got 23 out of 30. Does that qualify.

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Paul
78SC Targa

Hello

Normaly if you ask friendly and read the books you will find a solution.

There are so much betrayers out there that a guy asking is rare and people does react different. Only the background that you will do it to "save" money on taxes isn´t very helpfull at a staate runed office.

Some years ago I had seen a row Porsche 911 from 1966 to 1988. 4 Cars that all had the same color, owner, licence plate and the same VIN.

That was in Italy and the owner just used a little hole in the italian law like you will do it. Everyone in the village knows the story and the owner is known as a good man with a large heart and a even larger family.

He said he can´t spend so much money on taxes and other stuff, he rather would donate it to the church....


OK some people are polygam and they have no problem with it. Just choose your own church.


Grüsse

UPS, yes we also have the 2% rule. I think 130 + is the number in germany.