Risky Topic: Changing Vins

[atr911]

Okay folks,

This is just hypothetical so don't throw the book at me (yet).

Here is what I was wondering: Is it possible to purchase the ownership and VIN number from an early car and replace the one in my current car? I would write off the current VIN and simply claim that my car was a 72 (or whatever year I get).

I the only REAL way to tell the differance would be to see if the body was galanized, correct?

The benefites to this would be that I would have MUCH lower insurance payments (espeically at my age), a galvanised body, and I'll never have to worry about passing smog.

If there are any legal people here, what are the implications should I get caught?

Is it dooable? If you don't want your name posted publically giving this information, feel free to email me (roseneck@cyberbeach.net).

Thanks fellas,

Adam Roseneck

(this isn't as bad as selling manuals on CDs is it? )

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1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

[orbmedia]

Adam,

Sure it's 100% legal, at least here in the USA and probably Canada too since Canada is much more liberal on felonies like grand theft auto and VIN tampering.

You are always allowed to transfer the VINS freely from one car to another as long as you own at least one of the cars regardless of type. You are never required to be truthful when dealing with insurance companies, in fact if you read your policy it will clearly state that as long as you can get away with it it's OK in their book.

As far as resale goes there is no law that says once you swap VINS you cannot purport the vehicle to be another type of car. This is covered under the "caveat emptor" statutes of most states and principalities.

So in short go for it!

(DISCLAIMER: Please forgive me for this.)

[Rustbucket]

If you've purchased two or three cars (one fair and the other 2 for parts) at what point does the VIN from one car actually belong to one of the other cars? 51% transferal of parts from one to the other? Do insurance companies specifically ask for chasis numbers vs. engine numbers?
Don't some people buy wrecked cars with good titles just for the VIN numbers?

[This message has been edited by Rustbucket (edited 07-11-2001).]

[pwd72s]

Hey, what a great idea! I could turn a 912 into a 911S, a 911S into a RS...the list goes on. Just think of the possiblilites!

o : your ******* before prison...
0 : IN prison. Get the drift?

[Panic Attack]

You do seem to have alot of hairbrained ideas Adam, Im not sure where you get them, but you better start to give them back to their rightfull owner. If I was an unwitting buyer, and the car appeared as the vin, and I purchased the car (not that Im that stupid) after the sale, when it comes to my attention that you switched the vin and did not let me know, I would come and kick your ass! Have a nice day

[Jim T]

That's not even a really creative fraud, there have been 60 Minutes, 20/20 pieces on that for years now.

People have been doing that for a long time. They are called "chop shops."

[Greg-slant/cab]

Was this truly a serious question?

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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

[mideastmafia]

im thinking of putting a RX-7 VIN on my 944.

whatcha think!?!?


SHAUN

[ras911]

Hey while we're on this topic , do you guy think it's alright to take someone's car, if the keys are in it, at the track and drive it home? I could then drop it back at the next DE.


Personally I am appalled at the question that started this thread . Despicable!

[Graham Archer]

SHAUN,

I thought they already were interchangable.

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Graham Archer
83 911SC Cab

[roGERK]

Adam.

You seem like a nice guy.

Don't even consider it.

- roGER

[marc weintraub]

I am not sure about the true legalities of this situation, but I can remember someone in California being stopped for selling a VIN #.

When the fires were ravaging the hills in California, a gentleman was looking to sell his Lamborghini MiuraSV... at the time it was going for about 450k (at the peak of the market). His home and car were destroyed by the fire, but he managed to salvage the VIN and some associated parts from the car. I soon saw the VIN number and these parts for sale in the NY Times and various other places.

He was stopped legally from selling it... the reasoning at the time, was that it would be encouraging fraud due to the rarity and value of the car. It was also noted that the difference in the values between the 3 types of Miuras was drastic between the years and models (P-400, S, SV). These cars, in fact, were very different in many ways and by changing the VIN with the knowledge and intent to represent the car as a better automobile is fraud.

This has also been the case with the 1962 Ferrari GTO and Porsche RS, RSR, ST cars, etc. The one way that was legal was if the car was too far gone and it was rare to begin with. You find a donor body for the car with the same basic layout and transfer the VIN and all associated mechanics and interior to recreate the identical car.

[Greg-slant/cab]

There is a really simple reason why this is immoral and absolutely illegal. I could just drive down the street and choose a car that i like, take it home and put my VIN on it. Whose to say it was not always mine? The VIN # is not an entity in its self, it belongs to the vehicle. That is exactly why they are numbered. So theives and chop shops and whoever else do not try to sell or pass off stolen and or wrecked vehicles as something they are not.

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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

[gaijinda]

Lets lay off poor Adam. Its good to think about these things. We have enough Big Brother in our lives. 5% of cars cause 95% of pollution and I can tell you, they are not Porsches! Insurance companies class rate everything, that means we are thrown in with every schmuck in a 'vette choking on his gold chains!

I know there is an outfit that buys up rusty old bugs, takes off the bodies, takes a piece of the pan on which they bolt on a brand new (made in mexico)bug! The "new" cars only have to meet the emmission and safety regs of the doner pan. I want one, I really do.

The problem with doing the same thing, lets say, with a '98 993 4S bolted up to the VIN of a '68 911, is that in the event of a wreck, your insurance company will want to give you the blue book value of about $5000! If you went for an agreed value policy...well...that would cost you about the same (or more) as insuring a proper '98!

The only reason to do something like this would be to get around some emission regs, i.e. bring a '76 down to a '66 or something.

However, I could not condone selling such a car and passing it off as something that it was not, that would not be right.

[This message has been edited by gaijinda (edited 07-12-2001).]

[David McLaughlin]

orbmedia, You used to work for ***********, didn't you. I here they do just that all the time (makes a 914/4 shell into a 914/6 shell so they can get twice the money for NOTHING).

[orbmedia]

Dave,

I own a majority percentage share in AA. Still do.

[orbmedia]

That's a lie by the way. Both what Dave said and what I said.

[atr911]

OKAY

I just want to clarify something,

FIRST OFF, My intent of switching VINS was not to go with some rare 911RSR and then try and pass if off as a genuine one when (if) I do ever sell it. My intent was also not to try and screw the buyer into thinking that there was a clear title on the car.

The bottom line is that the car was wrecked, my insurance SCREWS me over even on my little 87 Mazda ($2500/year with a clean record and a ****tly little car).

Here is the reason that this might be considered:

1. Engine modifications won't permit me to pass an emmisions test (webbers) So this would save my ass, i don't plan on having noxious gas comming out my tail pipe!

2. I would just go and buy an early chasis and use all the parts from mine, but then I would have to worry about the car rusting
away on me.

AGAIN I want to clairify that I do not nor will I ever think of screwing someone who might purchase this car. The car will be sooooo customized and modified that the actual vin will not have any bearing on what the car sells for, it will be based on the quantity and quality of the modification.

Come on now, have some faith in me, I was so pissed off when I got scamed on this car, I would NEVER, EVER consider doing this to anyone.... I don't even know when you all go this Idea, I was pretty clear in the original post...

Adam Roseneck

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1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

[Pillow]

I have to beat on Automobile Atlanta a little bit here.

AA is great for parts, but that is it. There is one person there that is great fellow and always helpful when I drop in or to chat with at auto-Xs... And it ain't George.

NEVER buy a car from them or have your car serviced there. Every car on the lot that is for sale is a crap heap, they show some of these on ebay also. I have heard service stories that are not good as well as a former employee ***** about George screwing him out of tools and parts that he left at work.

Not really on topic, but I thought I would share




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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

[larkja]

I was considering writing a letter to the manufacturer recommending the VIN plates and all associated engine and body plates be affixed to the car with velcro. That way, if there was a problem, you could just go down to the local used car lot, test drive a car and when the salesman isn't looking, swap VINs. This would be great for resale and also smog purposes.

I could put the early VIN on and not have to worry about emmissions and the newer VIN on when selling the car.

Dude, have you ever thought of joining MENSA?