Is my 1970 911T matching numbers?

[924CarreraGTP]

Engine # 6109476
Chassis # 9110101896
Trans # unknown? uninspected as of yet.
This should be a 1970 911T 2.2 liter.

[Grady Clay]

The only accepted way to tell is to buy the Porsche (PCNA) Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) ~$100.
Certificate of Authenticity - Owner Services - Porsche Service - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
The .pdf form is on this site.

Did you get the little red Porsche ‘Maintenance Record’ book with your car?
That will list the VIN and engine number (and occasionally the transmission number) and is good documentation.

Another useful avenue of research is the title trail from the original Porsche Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin (MSO) to your current title.


From your descriptions, it looks like your 911T probably is ‘numbers matching’.
That said, this is common and the ‘norm’ for a ‘70T.

With race cars, it is unusual to be ‘numbers matching’ and is valuable.

Best,
Grady

[Allen_70S]

924CarreraGTP:

Fortunately for me the original owner of my 70S was a meticulous record keeper, who imported the (new) car into the US in February 1970. For what its worth - I have the following official documents, none of which references a specific transmission number. Transmission type = yes, a specific transmission # = no. I doubt that a COA (Many here think they’re next to useless) will contain information that is not available in these documents.

1) “Importers and Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin to a motor vehicle”
Has Engine # and Ser (Chassis )#

2) “914/6, 911T, 911E, 911S Maintenance Record for USA
Has Engine # and Ser (Chassis )#. There is no box for transmission #.

3) “Rechnung (German for invoice?)/Invoice”
Has Engine # and Ser (Chassis )#

From one of my references 1970T US delivery engines ranged from 6105001 – 610 7999
AND, 610 8501 – 610 9955. Karmann coupe Chassis serial # ranged from 9110100001 – 9110102418. Chassis number end of Dec 1969 was 9110100793, so your car was built in 1969.

I hoper this helps.

Al

[Grady Clay]

You have good provenance for your 1970 911S.
The other documents are worthwhile.

Here is an example of a CoA:

Note the transmission number.



This is the Porsche ‘Kardex’ for a 911:

Both copied from EarlyS Forum.

Porsche doesn’t seem to have these for all of our nice old cars but it is worth asking.

Best,
Grady

[djpateman]

According to my database the engine # is appropriate to the VIN. The COA would say for certain.
What is the paint code from the badge?

[924CarreraGTP]

The car is black but it was originally silver. I like the black. The paint code is not on the door jam. Also above the numbers for 69 are not high enough. The 0101 in the middle of the Vin doesn't relate to '69. Oh I see the body is a carry over from '69? I read the number wrong.
Also is my car a Karman Coupe? The engine# says it is.

[924CarreraGTP]

How many Karman coupes were there?

[924CarreraGTP]

Actually in looking I do have all of the maintenence records in the red book. The engine matches the body from 1970. I'm ecstatic because when first saw the car it looked too good to be true and then the engine number was not the same as the body # so I was unsure until now.
Also with it is the original owners manual from 1970 in mint condition.

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by 924CarreraGTP

Engine # 6109476
Chassis # 9110101896
Trans # unknown? uninspected as of yet.
This should be a 1970 911T 2.2 liter.

Originally Posted by 924CarreraGTP

Actually in looking I do have all of the maintenance records in the red book. The engine matches the body from 1970. I'm ecstatic because when first saw the car it looked too good to be true and then the engine number was not the same as the body # so I was unsure until now.
Also with it is the original owners manual from 1970 in mint condition.

Please post a good image of little red Porsche ‘Maintenance Record’ book first page and more.
It is wonderful that you have that record filled out.
Did you get a copy of the engine rebuild invoice?

Please post an image of the Owner’s Manual. Include the publication number and date from the back.
Did you get the burgundy vinyl folder for the books?

You absolutely need to get the CoA and Kardex for this 911T.
Are you the 2nd owner?
You should see if the original window decal, ordering information and original Bill-of-Sale are available.
It is remotely possible the State where it was originally titled has a copy of the original Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin (MSO).

Having copies of all these documents will be very desirable.


Decoding.
VIN: 9110101896

911 = Type 911 group.
0 = Model year 1970.
1 = Engine type T.
0 = Porsche coupe. (This would be ‘2’ if a Karmann coupe.)
1896 = Sequential number.

VIN range: 9110100001 to 9110102418.

Engine number: 6109476

6 = Engine designation 6-cylinder unit.
1 = Engine type T. (Should be type 911/07 – would be type 911/08 if had been Sportomatic transmission.)
0 = Model year 1970.
9476 = Sequential number (very high)
(There were total of 9089 1970 911T – Porsche coupes, Karmann coupes and Porsche Targas. The engine number 6108xxx range was reserved for type 911/08.)
Is this the engine number listed in the little red Porsche ‘Maintenance Record’ book?

66x84 mm = 2195 cc. 8.6:1 CR. 125 hp @ 5800 rpm.


Probable Transmission number: 710xxxx or 770xxxx.

7 = Transmission for 6-cylinder engine.
1 or 7 = 5-speed, standard ratio, Type 911/01.
0 = Model year 1970.
xxxx = Sequential number.

Geared
1st = 11/34 = 3.091:1, ‘A’.
2nd = 18/32 = 1.778:1, ‘GA’.
3rd = 23/28 = 1.217:1, ‘O’.
4th = 27/25 = 0.926:1, ‘V’.
5th = 29/22 = 0.759:1, ‘ZA’.
R&P = 7/31 = 4.429:1.

If there is a ‘10’, ‘11’ or ‘12’ between the transmission number and the type number, it was originally equipped with a ZF LSD.

I’ll edit this after you inspect the transmission.

Best,
Grady

[924CarreraGTP]

Awesome Grady! I will try to get the pics of the booklets soon. I work from an iPhone at my house so I'm unsure how to post photos from it. I'll get the trans number soon. I don't wanna put too much stress on the car by lifting and jacking yet. I know it's inevitable but I am more careful and precise than I seem to be.
I really should raise the back and clean the engine but I was planning to do that after I got it running and mobile.
I did get the maroon booklet, and the owners manual but no outside folder. I got an orange repair manual and an early Hanes, and I did get the engine rebuild reciept but it's not from Motormiester or Rennsport Systems so I'm skeptical. I read the magnesium case can flex and in turn need to be machined in a rebuild.
I hope these Arkansas stump jumpers knew this when it was rebuilt!

[70SWT]

And keep in mind that a CoA can be shamefully inaccurate - wrong color, saying a car is sunroof-equipped when it is a clearly unmodified hardtop, and even more egregious errors. Seen a couple of examples of this. Which begs the question - what if it says your car is different from its obvious original state? You have then paid for surprise uncertainty.

All I am saying is take CoAs with a grain of salt. I am not slamming those who get CoAs, but these documents are no panacea in light of Porsche's sketchy record-keeping and general lackadaisical attitude towards owners of older cars. I think you can tell more about the general desirability of a car from inspecting it and driving it, getting a PPI, using Pelican and other online resources, etc., than the CoA. If the CoA matches what you see, even better. Just one man's opinion.

[Cairo94507]

Originally Posted by 924CarreraGTP

I got an orange repair manual and an early Hanes, and I did get the engine rebuild reciept but it's not from Motormiester or Rennsport Systems so I'm skeptical. I hope these Arkansas stump jumpers knew this when it was rebuilt!

I am hoping you were joking about Motormeister because it sounds as if you were inferring that Motormeister IS some kind of reputable, professional engine builder or something. Apparently, from all of the articles and feedback, that may nit be the case.

Regardless, good luck with the car. It is always nice to see these cars being taken care of and returned to the road to be enjoyed.

[Grady Clay]

I agree, the CoA can contain errors and be incomplete.
PCNA can correct an errant CoA.
Simply send them documentation showing how the CoA should read.
You get a discount if you include documentation (window sticker, sales receipt, Maintenance Record, etc.) with your original application.
The person at PCNA who is in charge of the CoA program posts here on Pelican and on EarlyS Forum occasionally to answer questions.

…it's not from Motormiester or Rennsport Systems so I'm skeptical.

The good news it is not MotorSchiester.
The bad news it wasn’t done by my 40-year friend Steve at Rennsport Systems.
Steve, Jerry Woods and some other top builders have engine dynos.
This allows them to ‘run in’ your engine, perform initial service and load test before shipping the engine back to a customer.
I had a dyno and it is an invaluable tool with Porsche engine building.
I don’t see how any professional can ship an untested and un-serviced engine.

I don't wanna put too much stress on the car by lifting and jacking yet. I know it's inevitable but I am more careful and precise than I seem to be.

Don’t let us hurry you.
I can type faster than you can change oil.

From your 928 experience, I’m sure you know issues with jacking your car.
Safety, safety, safety.

… but no outside folder.

Keep your eye on the ‘Parts For Sale’ Forum or post a Want To Buy (WTB) request.
Be sure and find the exactly correct one.

Keep up your good work.
Thanks for including us in your new adventure.

Best,
Grady

PS:
Steve’s contacts, should you need something.
Steve Weiner
Rennsport Systems
Portland Oregon (only UPS away)
(503) 244-0990
porsche@rennsportsystems.com
Welcome to Rennsport Systems, Porsche Performance Products for the 21st Century

[924CarreraGTP]

Yeah I'm new to this whole thing. I just saw that motormiester rebuilt 911 engines. The quality of that rebuild I know nothing about. I'm convinced I could probably rebuild the engine myself if time and money were no issues. I have friends in the motorcycle engine arena that could surely machine some parts for me.
What fun is it to pay other people to do it? I know Rennsport Systems looked to have thier s#@t together when I did research on engine rebuild.
I saw on YouTube how an engine builder in England used pins to hold the crankshaft bearing halves together as the 906 engines had. That's pretty nifty.
Anyone have personal experience with magnesium cases? Good? Bad? Ugly?
I know my engine has some leaks but its undetermined how many and how bad they are until the car is running.
It's good to hear peoples feelings on Motormiester. Now I know who to avoid.