Ignition Switch Question

Jtilden · 04-25-2011, 06:08 PM

Car is a 1980 911SC. Could anyone confirm that the steering wheel lock on the mechanical portion of the ignition switch is supposed to extend and retract when I turn the key? Thanks in advance for your help. The reason I ask is, I had a problem where my car would not shut off so I bought the electrical portion thinking that would fix it, no luck. I took the mechanical part and spayed it down with brake cleaner then some WD-40, it does not seem to be turning as far as it should.

RSTarga · 04-26-2011, 04:57 AM

yes it should extend and retract. Have you tried removing the key turning to off?

ossiblue · 04-26-2011, 07:35 AM

RSTarga is correct, the steering wheel lock should extend when the ignition is turned off, and retract when the key begins to turn to the "on" position. There is an audible "click" when the mechanism extends when the key is turned off.

Do you hear the "click"? Does you steering wheel lock with the ignition off? Can you easily insert and remove your key? Is the slot for the key in a vertical position when the key is out?

Answers to the above questions may help us track down your problem.

Jtilden · 04-26-2011, 08:08 AM

the mechanical portion is out and in my hand, with no keys inserted the steering lock is still in the unlocked (recessed) position. When I insert the key and turn it to the start position there is does not seem to be a full range of motion, and the steering wheel lock stays in the unlocked state. I am assuming that turning the key back and forth would produce in and out movement of the lock. I found and ordered the entire lock assembly this time. I wonder why no one sells the mechanical portion separate from the electrical, as the electrical was the first part that I replaced (expensive mis-diagnosis).

ossiblue · 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtilden

the mechanical portion is out and in my hand, with no keys inserted the steering lock is still in the unlocked (recessed) position. When I insert the key and turn it to the start position there is does not seem to be a full range of motion, and the steering wheel lock stays in the unlocked state. I am assuming that turning the key back and forth would produce in and out movement of the lock. I found and ordered the entire lock assembly this time. I wonder why no one sells the mechanical portion separate from the electrical, as the electrical was the first part that I replaced (expensive mis-diagnosis).

Look at the back of the mechanical portion you are holding and notice the tab--the part that fits into the electrical portion. With the key out, the tab should be completely vertical ( you will notice a small slot at the top of the mechanism where the pin from the electrical part fits. Use that slot as a guide for "top" or vertical.) Is it? When you insert the key and turn it, does the tab rotate smoothly and return to the vertical position when the key is turned back?

I gathered from your original post that the engine failed to turn off, correct? That can only mean the electrical part is faulty or it's not being completely rotated. Since you replaced the electrical part, that's out of the equation (however, now is a good time to confirm. Simply plug the electrical part into the connector under the dash and rotate it using a flat blade screw driver. Does everything come on, start, and shut down?)

That leaves the mechanical part. The locking shaft should spring out when the key is removed--it is an audible "click" and since you have it in your hand, you would feel the small jolt. When you insert the key, the shaft retracts almost immediately. It sounds like that is part of your problem, but maybe not the entire part.

There is also a set of disks, for lack of a better descriptor, that are inside the lock cylinder hole that prevents turning the key to "start" twice without first turning the key to "off"--so you don't grind the starter gears on a running engine. These may be playing a part in the lack of full movement of the key, or it may be the lock cylinder itself.

Since you have the mechanism out, I'd continue trying to clean and lube the lock cylinder and shaft to see if you can get it to turn smoothly and get the shaft to extend/retract correctly. If that fails, you can remove the lock cylinder by drilling out the pin in the side of the housing, or grinding down the housing a bit and pulling the pin out with needle nose pliers. Inspect the lock and the internals. See if you can get the shaft to extend. Clean the inside thoroughly.

Failing that, you might try to extract the shaft itself, but I don't know if that's possible. You will not want to buy a new mechanical part as they run around $600 new, maybe half that used, but that is a last resort.

I will try to find the thread that someone posted showing pictures of the disassembling of the ignition lock. Ignition switch - inside to fix START lockout
how the F does the ignition stalk come off

Jtilden · 04-26-2011, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Look at the back of the mechanical portion you are holding and notice the tab--the part that fits into the electrical portion. With the key out, the tab should be completely vertical ( you will notice a small slot at the top of the mechanism where the pin from the electrical part fits. Use that slot as a guide for "top" or vertical.) Is it? When you insert the key and turn it, does the tab rotate smoothly and return to the vertical position when the key is turned back?

I gathered from your original post that the engine failed to turn off, correct? That can only mean the electrical part is faulty or it's not being completely rotated. Since you replaced the electrical part, that's out of the equation (however, now is a good time to confirm. Simply plug the electrical part into the connector under the dash and rotate it using a flat blade screw driver. Does everything come on, start, and shut down?)

That leaves the mechanical part. The locking shaft should spring out when the key is removed--it is an audible "click" and since you have it in your hand, you would feel the small jolt. When you insert the key, the shaft retracts almost immediately. It sounds like that is part of your problem, but maybe not the entire part.

There is also a set of disks, for lack of a better descriptor, that are inside the lock cylinder hole that prevents turning the key to "start" twice without first turning the key to "off"--so you don't grind the starter gears on a running engine. These may be playing a part in the lack of full movement of the key, or it may be the lock cylinder itself.

Since you have the mechanism out, I'd continue trying to clean and lube the lock cylinder and shaft to see if you can get it to turn smoothly and get the shaft to extend/retract correctly. If that fails, you can remove the lock cylinder by drilling out the pin in the side of the housing, or grinding down the housing a bit and pulling the pin out with needle nose pliers. Inspect the lock and the internals. See if you can get the shaft to extend. Clean the inside thoroughly.

Failing that, you might try to extract the shaft itself, but I don't know if that's possible. You will not want to buy a new mechanical part as they run around $600 new, maybe half that used, but that is a last resort.

I will try to find the thread that someone posted showing pictures of the disassembling of the ignition lock. Ignition switch - inside to fix START lockout
how the F does the ignition stalk come off

The vertical tab does not do a complete 360, from a 9 to 12 oclock position would best describe the range of movement. With only the electrical connected the car operates as it should. So what you are saying is that something in the cylinder is causing the loss of full movement? And if I was to take it apart I could un-bind what is causing the problem? I was under the impression that something has broken inside the stalk, that is why I just ordered a new ($600...ouch) one. I will cancel my order and disassemble the old stalk if that is the case.

RSTarga · 04-26-2011, 04:42 PM

I suggest just biting the bullet and putting a new one in. When remounting make sure it is perfectly aligned and engaging before you buckle everything back up.If not properly aligned it might not engage. After turning the key off the lock will pop out when you remove the key.
With the new one you'll either have to rekey your door lock and glove box or rekey the ignition switch( a bit trickier and easy to screw up your brand new ignition).

ossiblue · 04-26-2011, 05:08 PM

When I said full movement of the cylinder, I did not mean a full 360 degrees. However, it does appear your mechanism doesn't turn enough. You tested the electrical portion and you can tell just how much the switch should rotate from off to start--that's the amount of rotation the mechanical part should move.

Unfortunately, I'm with RStarga on this one, it's best to stick with a new one unless you're certain your mechanism can be repaired. You can still remove the cylinder from your old unit, or take it to a locksmith, and install it in the new so you won't have to re-key.

Jtilden · 04-26-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossiblue

When I said full movement of the cylinder, I did not mean a full 360 degrees. However, it does appear your mechanism doesn't turn enough. You tested the electrical portion and you can tell just how much the switch should rotate from off to start--that's the amount of rotation the mechanical part should move.

Unfortunately, I'm with RStarga on this one, it's best to stick with a new one unless you're certain your mechanism can be repaired. You can still remove the cylinder from your old unit, or take it to a locksmith, and install it in the new so you won't have to re-key.

Thanks all, bit the bullet this morning. I wanted confirmation that I did the right thing. Now I am sure I did