Engine number detail

[Anton911]

Hi, can anyone kindly assist me with the details of my 911 engine. I bought a 911 but the engine number does not mach the vin details and I would like to find out what engine I have. Engine number *6290893*
Please help?

[Grady Clay]

Anton,
First, welcome to Pelican
You will find a lot of help here.

The VIN and engine number should not be the same.
*6290839* decodes as:
6 = Engine designation 6-cyl unit.
2 = Engine type 911E.
9 = Model year 1969.
0839 = Sequential Number, out of 2455 built.
This is engine type 901/09 for a manual transmission.
This has MFI, 1991 cc, and 140 hp.

The VIN for this engine would be:
1192Xzzzz where
X = 0 for a Porsche coupe, X =1 for a Targa or X = 2 for a Karmann coupe.
zzzz = Sequential number.

Pictures please

Best,
Grady

[Anton911]

Thanks Grady, This is great info.

I'll post some pic's soon.

[Anton911]

Hi, Some more assistance please.

Grady advised me yesterday that I have a different engine to what I expected in a 911 I recently purchased. My intention for this 911 is to build a trackday monster competing against 430 Ferrari's, Nobels and Lotus's. My car is of the older generation 911's but it is very light and has a nice 993 bodykit. The 2.0L engine is obviously not going to do the job. When I bought it I thought it was 3.0L and the intention was to do a turbo conversion to upgrade the HP for trackday purpose. The 2.0L runs lovely but it's of no use to me know. Is this engine worth anything?
What's the next best engine for my purpose? 3.6 NA or 3.3 Turbo?

How do I post pic's

[Grady Clay]

Anton,

Here is a little instruction thread on posting images:
How to post images (pictures) on Pelican


Let’s leave the creation of a track car and engine for another thread.
First, lets find out what you have.

We are pretty sure the engine is a ‘69E type 901/09.

Please confirm finding the type number (red circle).
There should be another number stamped immediately near the type number (probably both inside the circle or near).




Does the engine have the Mechanical Fuel Injection (MFI)?


On to the chassis:
What is the VIN stamped into the chassis?
I assume that agrees with the title, registration, etc.
What year and model?


The reason this is important is you don’t want to build yourself a $$K track car and discover someday the chassis actually belongs to Allstate or State Farm.
If there is an issue, it is easier (and a lot less expensive) to resolve it now.

Too often in the past, track cars were not titled and registered (less cost to not pay tax) and registration not need to race (a trailered car).
I think many 1967S’ disappeared this way.
The even bigger problem came when the value of these approached 6-digit numbers and were restored.
When the car was re-registered, the VIN (and other) showed up as ‘previously stolen’ and ownership had been transferred to an insurance company.

Insurance companies and the FBI have very long memories.
The insurance company (has been owner for decades occasionally) doesn’t care that you spent $$K ‘repairing’ their car – “Thank you very much. Where are the keys?”




One of the ‘arts’ of buying an old (and new) 911 is to investigate all the numbers.
Pelican (and others) can help with this.

So … good images will both help identify what you have and help you know if there has been tampering.
With a clear number, you can have an official ‘VIN Inspection’ and the number confirmed ‘clean’ through the FBI’s NCIC computers.
This kind of provenance will let you sleep at night with your investment ‘safe’.

This also shows why cars with complete one-owner (or ownership trail) documentation sell for a premium.

Best,
Grady

[Anton911]

Hi Grady,

Thank you for the assistance.
Here are some pic’s:



Engine serial:






This no: 20891



I hope this adds more value to our discussion.

Thanks

[Anton911]

Grady,

I forgot to add the VIN no. - 9111100318

I've also had it checked by the local authorities prior to the purchase - so all clear from that point of view.

[djpateman]

So type # 901/09 build # 20891 and serial # 6290893 fits nicely. It is a 1969 2.0E engine with what appears to be original MFI installed. The body is a 1971 911T with a lot of window dressing. You should check the transmission serial # also; the 1969 would be type 901/xx, the 1971 would be type 911/xx. For a 3.0 or bigger motor it is not likely that either would be strong enough for a track monster. The transmission number is on the bottom of the transmission case; the lowest part most likely to be scraped.

[Grady Clay]

Anton,

9111100318
Decodes as:
911 = Type 911 group.
1 = Model year 1971.
1 = Engine type 911T.
0 = Body version Porsche coupe.
0318 = Sequential number.



The 6290893, type 901/09 engine appears somewhat close to original.
Davep’s list shows your build # 20891 between 6195959 (type 901/16) #20835 and 6391067 (901/10) #20928.
Of course I don’t have the latest updates.

It is MFI.
It is missing the Bosch CDI and electrical panel with the electrics for the MFI and the heated rear window.

What transmission is in the car?


None of this matters for your use.

This will make a good basis for a track car.
Start another thread discussing how the chassis and running gear are configured and where you want to go with it.

I’ll encourage you to study all the regulations for the various tack event organizations (PCA, SCCA, NASA, POC and more) before you decide on the engine and all the other.
Keep in mind that with larger engines and more power also require larger (later) transmissions, bigger brakes, larger tires and more wear and stress.

You will find a lot of good advice here.

Best,
Grady

PS: Where are you located?

[Anton911]

Thank you for the valued information.

What do I do next?

From a value point of view - would I be able to sell my engine and transmission and purchase say a 3.0L SC engine and transmission? I've seen a few 3.0L SC's breaking for spares so I can gauge from that what an engine / transmission combination would cost me, but I've never seen a 2.0L MFI engine and tranny up for sale.

Any thoughts?

[Grady Clay]

Anton,

Originally Posted by Anton911

What do I do next?

I think the best thing to do next is to not get the cart before the horse.

What is it you want to do?
What is your budget? (You don’t need to post it but you need to know it!!)

A good place to start is looking at the race/track events you want to consider.
What are the rules?
Where are the events?
How many weekends per year?
Do you have a transporter or do you need it street legal?
How much ‘other equipment’ do you need to buy? (Tools, equipment, safety gear, spares are not insignificant.)

What are your DIY skills?
Do you have adequate shop space and equipment?
Do you have the time?

What are your driving experience and skills? (Everyone benefits from more ‘schooling’.)

Originally Posted by Anton911

From a value point of view - would I be able to sell my engine and transmission and purchase say a 3.0L SC engine and transmission? I've seen a few 3.0L SC's breaking for spares so I can gauge from that what an engine / transmission combination would cost me, but I've never seen a 2.0L MFI engine and tranny up for sale.
Any thoughts?

Any discussion about what track engine to buy should await a decision on what group and class to enter.
Unless some giant ‘opportunity’ falls in your lap (you are first on CL for a 3.6V for $500), cool your heels.


The ’69 2.0E engine is saleable as is the (assumed) ’71 type 911 transmission.
You indicate the car is driving as is.
Get it running the best reasonable without much expenditure.
Document its running (sump & oil filter inspection, compression, cylinder leak, oil consumption, MFI tuning, fuel consumption and transmission shifting, noise and magnet debris).
Have this professionally done and well documented with numbers, pictures, etc.
Have the sale of the engine and the transmission disassembled for inspection.
This takes the ‘mystery’ out of the sale/purchase allowing the buyer knowing the condition (not assuming the worst) and you getting the most for the sale.
Any new owner will rebuild it anyway.


A well prepared track engine and transmission will cost $30-50K or so. (I suspect those with more current knowledge will bump this upward.)
This is with many new parts to make a reasonably reliable and class competitive engine & trans pair.
DIY can reduce that a bit but you pay for what you get.

If you want...

Originally Posted by Anton911

… to build a trackday monster competing against 430 Ferrari's, Nobels and Lotus's...

...it will be a bit more.



Again, “Don’t get the cart before the horse.”
You need to analyze the suspension, chassis, roll bar/cage, etc.
Looking in the engine compartment, I see what appears to be original ‘undercoat’, indicating the tub has never been stripped.
This is critical because the chassis will have dreaded rust.
There is hardly a ’71 left that doesn’t have some.

Even if little rust, the chassis needs reinforcement to ensure a long, safe and happy life.
The process will also ensure that it will not rust in the future and is easy to repair.



So … “What to do?”

Go here:
SCCA Sports Car Club of America
Porsche Club of America - Home
National Auto Sport Association - nasaproracing.com
::Porsche Owners Club::
Study the rules for car/class preparation and safety requirements.
(With particular emphasis on roll bar/cage design, seat & belts and personal safety gear.)


Best,
Grady

[javadog]

Grady,

I suspect the original poster is from the UK.

JR

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by javadog

Grady,

I suspect the original poster is from the UK.

JR

That is why I asked for his location in Post #9. (EDIT ... I didn't notice the RHD. )

My answer would be the same except for race organization links.

My point is to connect someone’s intent with the realities of a car. They must meet at some point.
Planning reduces the chance of making (expensive) mistakes.
If you start with a car purchase, the next step is to research the range of possible uses and the various costs.
With a 911, that is usually easy.

On the other hand, it is not (economically) possible to take a ’71 911 and prepare it as a GT3CUP and run it in the 24-hour.
Somewhere less reality comes into play.

Best,
Grady

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

My point is to connect someone’s intent with the realities of a car. They must meet at some point.

I would agree. His goals for that car might be a bit ambitious. Or, way too expensive, at best.

JR

[Anton911]

Wow - Lots of questions.

Let's start by saying I'm from Cape Town South Africa. I have a passion for racing and have 10 years of racing experience, mostly single seater and Cup racing.

When purchasing the 911 I realized that I would have to spend some money to make it a competitive track-day car. Because of the more modern body kit fitted I reasoned that it is already half ruined so if I happen to crash it as a race-car I would not feel that guilty.
I did not pay much for the 911 but the engine and trans. is a bit of a setback for the purpose I want to use it for. Hopefully I'll be able to recover some costs for an upgrade.
Items already purchased include:
Roll cage
Coil-overs
Big Reds
Race Seat.

The car has to stay road legal but I never intend on driving it to the circuit.
From a DIY point - I'm able to do much of the work myself but often rely on outsourced assistance.

The car generally feels good and drives well. What interested me initially was the weight. A trip to the weigh bridge recorded 860 kg in full trim. I just thought this would make a nice light racer. It also has very little rust.

I also do not want to end up spending too much money but want to be able to compete with more modern Porsche's.

What to do ?

[Grady Clay]

Bump for more Pelicans to advise, comment and question.
Good description of where you want to go.

Best,
Grady