Which clutch release fork with bronze bushing shaft update?

[Jonny042]

Hello all,

I am trying to round up the necessary parts to fix my clutch and release mechanism (G50 Carrera), on my list is new clutch, TOB, etc. and also the bronze-bushing cross shaft kit since the only alternative would be the update using the NLA update tool (reamer).

However, I am unsure of which release fork to use: I am hoping to re-use my old one? Seems silly to spend $250.00 on something that should be one of the stronger links in the chain, ie, the ears on the TOB will snap off long before the fork breaks.

I cannot believe that this is going to be $1000.00+ for a DIY clutch. Cripes.

[tobluforu]

What year car are you referring too and are you talking about the fork inside the tranny that fits into the TO bearing?
Edit, just checked I guess this is a G50 so I'm out. Next!

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by tobluforu

What year car are you referring too and are you talking about the fork inside the tranny that fits into the TO bearing?

Sorry about that!...... 1987 Carrera, and yes, referring to the clutch release fork in the bellhousing, that fits in the TOB.

Thanks for trying... anyone? Is it safe to assume i can use my old clutch fork with the new brass bushing kit?

[Jonny042]

Perhaps it's safe to assume that since the listing in the pelican catalog doesn't specify, I'll be ok with my old one. Hopefully one less thing to buy!

[Flat6pac]

Check for sure as you will need the updated guide tube which is smaller for the smaller center hole for the TOB. Without it, the trans wont mate..I know.
Bruce

[shinrai]

Are you the original owner?

I just went through this and discovered that my car already had the cross shaft update and yours might as well. You won't know until you pull it apart. Be careful pulling it apart because sometimes the "ears" that hold the shaft in the G50 break off which means your trans casting is screwed. If it has had the update and the fork/plastic bushings look good you'll only have to replace the needle bearings and rubber seals beside the bearings. The rubber seals are installed ONE WAY only so do your homework. The pic below is the oem update.

A few more things:
-as mentioned above you'll most likely have to replace the guide tube (see pic)
-they recommend replacing the flywheel because they say it isn't machinable. I replaced mine. However based on the condition of my old one I don't believe it's a necessity. If you find a good shop to take a minimum amount off i don't see any harm.
-i ordered the oem style rubber centered clutch disk but received the spring centered type. I was told the rubber centered one in NLA. Not sure about this but I notice no difference with the spring centered type.
-change the rear main seal, thermostat seals etc. while you have it apart.
-order the big parts from pp. Their competition is horrible on delivery and they don't tell you that things are on back-order (sometimes for months).
-order the small parts from you local Porsche dealer. I found them helpful.

[Jonny042]

Unfortuneatly I am not the original owner, so am unsure if the car has the update or not. I originally intended to get all the parts on order this week but got distracted by reading all about clutch upgrades etc. and almost went with a KEP pressure plate.

So I suppose I will use up one day of my long weekend to do a motorandtransectomy.... figure out what's in there before I order anything else.

I order from Pelican quite often, I have paid on or two of Wayne's mortgage payments but they are not the be-all and end all.....I ordered Sachs Clutch kit #K70021-01 from another vendor. At $740.00 and free shipping it's tough to justify the $1080.00 clutch from Pelican of an unknown origin and does not include the TO bearing?

Regardless, I will order the rest of the needed supplies via Pelican, including the other small parts I need since my nearest dealer is a 6 hour drive and in another country!

You don't happen to have a White Carrera that you bought a year or so ago?

[hcoles]

There are a number of threads on this subject on this site, the no drill bronze bushing kits (avail. from Pelican and a number of other sources) work however in my opinion there is room for improvement. I got a new updated fork and tube, I don't remember the back ground for why the new fork. Re. the G50 clutch system, you want this to be in very good shape to avoid breaking one of the ears on the tranny and of course the other usual clutch/TO bearing issues.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by hcoles

There are a number of threads on this subject on this site, the no drill bronze bushing kits (avail. from Pelican and a number of other sources) work however in my opinion there is room for improvement. I got a new updated fork and tube, I don't remember the back ground for why the new fork. Re. the G50 clutch system, you want this to be in very good shape to avoid breaking one of the ears on the tranny and of course the other usual clutch/TO bearing issues.

I have been through a number of threads but none of them seem to answer my specific question.

Are you saying then that the new guide tube (required by the new throwout bearing) also requires the new fork because there is a clearance issue between them?

As you mention I would actually prefer the factory update shaft and needle bearings (seems a more elegant solution) but the need to ream the ear on the trans brings an added dimension to it. The NLA tool means I would have to source the proper sized reamer, etc.

[hcoles]

That sounds like a good guess, but I don't remember. Hopefully someone here will inform. You can call Pelican they probably know.

[KTL]

Yeah these Sachs clutches went up in price quite a bit in the past few years. I remember in the early 2000's when the 915 clutch kit was $299 everywhere you looked and the G50 was only about $500 or so.

I think it would be best to get the trans. out of the car and see what you have before ordering. Like the others said, you may find that you already have the factory update for the later shaft and outboard needle bearings. Agreed that there has been a LOT of discussion of this G50 update on the tech forum here.

G50 Cross-shaft Update


In terms of the fork, the aftermarket shaft kit is designed to work with any fork, not just the updated fork. The updated fork is simply a beefier one that has fatter fingers to grip the release bearing ears. The early forks had fairly thin fingers. But I think the fork update was a reaction to the shaft problem. When Porsche updated the shaft, they probably could have left the fork alone. The shaft problem was the source of many other problems. A stuck shaft can brake the slave cylinder, the ears in the trans, the release fork or the release bearing. Basically whichever is the weakest at the time.

If you have broken ears in the trans, all is not lost. I have seen several people have these repaired by machine shops who simply weld a block of aluminum alloy to the bell housing and drill a new hole for the shaft/bearing. This is how California Motorsports used to do it. But they came up with a new idea that looks even more robust. Not cheap but you'll never have a broken ear again.

Scroll about 1/2way down to see their fix. California Motorsports Porsche G50 5 speed transmission section

For the release bearing, you can see if you need a new guide tube simply by looking at it's surface. If smooth with no grooving, it's fine. However the replacement of the release bearing itself is a good idea. That's where the issue comes up as to whether or not you've got the old release bearing and tube. Porsche changed the ID of the new release bearing so you can't mix and match old guide tube with new release bearing, like Bruce said. There's a tech bulletin in the old 74-89 Parts Reference from Porsche, which is where I got this information

Clutch release bearing - how does it work?

The fork update and guide tube update independent of each other. While they are related parts that work together, you can update one without the other.

There is a lot of G50 information on this forum in terms of the shaft, fork, release bearing details. Just have to use the right terms. "G50 shaft" is a good search term to use. I've chimed in on a lot of the threads so try including my KTL username to refine the search?

edit............. here's a topic about the forks, in terms of their ear sizes and what was updated

Clutch Fork Too Large - G50

[Jonny042]

Wow KTL, that's a great explanation, and will hopefully in the future show up in a lot of searches. Thanks for some valuable information that I did not find in my searching.

I did ask Pelican and got a response within a day:


Hello Jon,

10-1518-090-M157 G50 Improved Operating Shaft and Bushing Kit - Does NOT require drilling. 911 1987-89 $158.25
Kit for Release Bearing Fork Shaft Includes: Cross Shaft, Bronze Bushings, and Instructions.
( NOTE: Fits all G50 & G64 transmissions, modified or not ).

My understanding is that this kit is was designed for the original release fork to be used. The newest release fork looks to have the very same dimensions, so it should work just as well.

(997-116-086-90-M100 Release Bearing Fork 1 $243.00)

If you have any other questions, or would just like help in placing your order, feel free to contact me at any time.

Kind regards,


Darren

Pelican Parts
USA & Canada: 888-280-7799 ext 313
International: 310-640-1245 ext 313
Fax: 310-640-2632

[shrtshck]

Just up dated the fork shaft on my 87 G50 a couple months ago. You do not need a new fork, and the improved kit does not require any machining.
The only issue I ran into was when mating the tranny to the engine, the shift fork was a little to wide to fit between the bosses on the bell housing. Used a file to remove a little material from the shoulder of the bushings. Might want to check the clearance before mating up the tranny.
Only tool I needed to install the brass bushings on the fork was a bench vise.