3.2 Performance Upgrade?
 

New to the forum. Recently purchased an unmolested 86' Carrera Coupe. Stock everything. I am looking to do a few performance upgrades. I am working on a modest budget and not looking to make a track car out of it. The car has great pulling power over 4000 rpms. Just ok below that. I am looking for suggestions for "biggest bang for your buck" type upgrades. There appears to be a lot of products by a lot of manufacturers out there. No clue where to begin. Thanks for the input.
Keith

Welcome Keith, I have an 84 cab with a 3.2. I found that the best improvement for the buck was a DME chip from Steve Wong, along with his cat by-pass. Easy afternoon project if your handy and the results were instant. Better pull throughout the power band and better mileage to boot! Just my 2 cents...... enjoy.SmileWavy

Hey and welcome. I've done this particular search a number of times, but I remember this thread in particular:

Top 10 Carrera upgrade suggestions

I've got H4s, a strut bar, and also recently put in a Steve Wong chip. New tires were a significant improvement as well, along with a tune up with valves adjusted.

well you are in the right place:

The answer depends on so many variables it is almost impossible to answer. Like saying I bought a house and want to remodel it, what should I do?

My advice is to cool it with modifications for a period and get to know the car along with going over and performing or addressing all the service/wear points. You can read an almost infinite number of threads here on any imagined modification. IMHO the cars are very good (I think we can say excellent) stock when in an good state of repair.

Oh, and if you haven't yet, it is common protocol to post pictures of the car as a start. Also include more info. e.g. your mechanical knowledge, experience and skill level, history on the car, budget, intend to DIY/etc. otherwise we have no context.

Others will have different thoughts.

Keith,
First, WELCOME to Pelican SmileWavy
You will find a lot of help here.


Without sounding flippant, don’t molest it.
Enjoy it the way it is.
It will never be a ‘stump puller’ or beat a 7-liter from a stop. Don’t try.

After 25 years of service, I’m sure there are regular maintenance service that can help you learn the (unique) technical aspects of your 911 while bringing it back closer to new condition.

The ‘right’ tires for your use make more difference than any other single thing you can do for your 911.
How old are the existing tires?
When you change tires, buy two 8x16” Fuchs rims for the rear and move the current 7x16” Fuchs to the front.
There are many threads about tire brands, compounds and sizes.

You will find there are some modest upgrades to the suspension.
How old are the shocks?
When you replace the shocks (or have them rebuilt), you have the opportunity to lower and stiffen the suspension with larger diameter torsion bars, sway bars and some normal 25-year service replacements.
This can be done without degrading the ‘ride’ but dramatically improves the ‘handling’.
You have the chance to simultaneously replace the 25-year old tie rod ends, ball joints and service the brakes and wheel bearings.
In the rear, it is useful to inspect the CV joint boots.
If the axles need service, you can also replace the rear wheel bearings.

You will find many threads covering these subjects.
The Search Function will turn up many.

All of this will allow you to accumulate tools and the knowledge to DIY.
There is great satisfaction in this relationship with your 911.



Engine performance?
Many will recommend installing a later 3.6 and preserving your original 3.2.
Yes, there are useful modifications to your 3.2. Know the ‘slippery slope’ before you light into anything.

Again WELCOME.
Please post some pictures of your ‘new’ 911.
Enjoy :cool:

Best,
Grady

EDIT
PS: Yes, the DME chip from Steve Wong is one of those easy mods that meet the ‘no molest’ criteria: It can be done without damaging or changing the car and it is easily reversible.
The chip does make a significant difference.
G.

The best performance update for the CAR is for the DRIVER to take performance driver training.

Welcome!
Chip & cat bypass for performance, refresh/upgrade the suspension for fun factor.
Not much else you can do on a budget that adds more enjoyment.

+1 - at least run a few AX events, you can get free training there with PCA, I should have thought of this first. This gets you some practice hanging the rear out and recovering by using throttle or other means and may prevent you from getting in a ditch during "normal" driving. "Slow in, fast out".

The disparity between the types of answers one gets is always amusing to me. On the far end of the spectrum, installing a 3.6 is given as a suggestion and at the other end your advised to do nothing but learn to drive better. Judging by your original question that you want to know of a few simple mods that would enhance the power band on your existing 3.2 (which you will not be turning into a track car). I would have to agree with the SW chip and the cat bypass. This will really make a noticeable difference. And yes, please post a pic. SmileWavy

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and great advise. i will post pics asap. This is a very nice car. 100k miles. Honestly, this is the greatest car I have ever driven. My mechanic suggested joining the local PCA (central ny) and taking the drivers school. Not sure I want to take it out on the track and start breaking stuff yet. I have had it for about six months and have gone through some maintanence and other repairs:
Oil change
Air filter
Alternator and alternator fan housing replace
replace battery leads
replace brake light switch
Pics coming. Thank you again for the welcome.

Oh yes, and valve service...

After talking to a lot of people who make their living by really knowing how to get something out of the Porsche motors a discussion with Jerry Woods crystallized all of it. They have ran pretty much anything that anyone has thought of on the dyno so they aren't guessing.
The 30 second version worked out to this:
"Without opening up the 3.2 and doing internal modifications we have found: Zero horsepower in the whole intake system. There is zero horsepower to be found in the ignition. There may be up to 20 horsepower to be found in the exhaust."

If you leave the exhaust stock, your simple, safe improvement is to modify the DME to take a 28 pin chip (yours should have a 24 pin in it) and put in the factory 1267355358 chip. This is Porsche's final iteration of the 3.2 chip. It will be safe unless you get into some really, really bad gas or just generally let the condition of your motor go to hell.

If you change the exhaust there may be some real improvements to be found in an aftermarket chip but be clear on this: An air cooled motor can be compared to a tubular bell. The normal combustion sounds aren't dampened like a water cooled motor so you can get a LOT more silent preignition before you can detect a problem. This can damage rings, pistons, valves, heads, etc.
An aftermarket chip for a stock configuration finds gains by tuning the ignition and fuel in areas where Porsche was conservative because they couldn't have engines fail because of running a tank of bad gas, neglected maintenance, or extremely hot weather. This leaves less of a safety blanket but if you only put in good quality gas, take care of the car, and don't go on high powered blasts through the desert, you should be fine.

With a modified exhaust the engine definitely needs different fuel and ignition settings so an aftermarket chip can find some real improvements.
Here is the proviso:
Porsche created their fuel and ignition maps by running hundreds of hours on the dyno systematically going through various stages of part throttle up to full throttle, at all rpms. An aftermarket chip maker can't do this because that is too expensive and they aren't going to make that much off what they could sell.
Instead they make their chips by studying the stock maps and then working from there. This can produce real gains but you are still taking a risk (very, very, very small) that they won't find a spot where you have slipped into silent detonation.

And for all of this (exhaust and chip) you are getting about a 10% power improvement.

------
The one direction you can go that gives improvements in all performance is weight reduction. There are some real gains to be made here. Removing sound deadening, removing anything you can live without, replacing parts with fiberglass or carbon.

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The last word in performance is that all performance in a car comes down to your tires. Think not?
- Trying to get more power? That is just to get the tires to push you down the road harder.
- Putting on a better suspension? That is just to try and allow the tires to use more of their potential to grip the road.
- Need more brakes? That is just to allow you to make the tires apply the greatest braking force against the road.
- Need a more accurate feel for the road? You are just trying to get the best feel of the tire's contact patch.

Tires are the number one item you can put on a car to improve its performance.
(Ask my wife about what a set of performance tires did for her Volvo wagon!)
A set of R compound tires will completely transform your car and the other side of this is you are compromising tire life, possibly road noise, cost, wet weather performance, etc. Just tires will make the largest change in a car. (That is where I have found the largest quantity of giggles...) :p

Taking these cars out on a track won't break them unless you hit stuff. They are TOUGH! I have over 225K on mine and I have never had anything fail because it went on the track.

Your expectations on the track should be that you will accelerate wear of the parts that are disposable on any car: The tires and the brakes. The one thing people often don't remember is brake fluid. After a really hard track day you should probably bleed out the brake fluid. Obviously if you wear out a tire or a pad you know what that means.

One last detail is possibility of rock chips. You will get these on the street to but if you are running close to someone with sticky tires they car throw a lot of stuff in the air. If you give your car a coat of wax and then tape up the forward facing surfaces that isn't an issue.

---
Go run that car. You will break before it does.

Hey - pic or ban - better do it or the forum will turn on you.....;)

SmileWavy welcome to Pelican - the ultimate upgrade you can make for your Porsche


No really - I would think drivers ed with local PCA and or other performance driving group. Basic upgrades as mentioned. Have fun with it - its a car - and its yours ... :cool:

congrats

BG

You've heard the answer - act on it:

Steve Wong Chip

Plus - get the factory short shift kit, for fun sake.

The only other fantastic mod on my 911 was the North Hollywood Speedometer LED upgrade. Those 3 are the best money I spent.

Ken

ok guys, thank you for all the great advice. pics as promised....http://www.flickr.com/photos/55190639@N04/5801853565/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55190639@N04/5802411682/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55190639@N04/5802410352/
100_4673 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I see the chip has some really nice reviews. As for me, 33 years old, geologist, motorcycle enthusiast, and definate DIYer within my limits. Chip and bypass, yes. Engine swap, no. The one thing I have learned through the years working on cars and bikes is that I know my limits and leave some projects to the pros.

- Jerry Woods -

"Without opening up the 3.2 and doing internal modifications we have found: Zero horsepower in the whole intake system. There is zero horsepower to be found in the ignition. There may be up to 20 horsepower to be found in the exhaust."

- Quicksilver -

"An aftermarket chip for a stock configuration finds gains by tuning the ignition and fuel in areas where Porsche was conservative"

A major contradiction, where the emphasis was on STOCK!!!
Now who is to be believed?

I guess first hand experience has some value. If people are noticing improved performance after installing an aftermarket chip, then it sort of speaks for itself; whether the improvement is through increased HP or an improved power curve. If anyone can speak to this or recommend a good thread, your imput is appreciated. I certainly do not want to install a chip and cat bypass if there is no noticable improvement.

Do a search on the Steve Wong Chip.

Here's Steve's site:

911Chips.com - Porsche Performance Chip Tuning

He's got some pretty good write-ups, as well as actual dyno curves.

Personally - I'm not sure how the cat removal does or does not work. In theory, it makes sense - if the engine can breathe better, it's better. Then again - I've read that it's really not a restriction.

For sure, do the chip though.

Ken

Thought i'd add my experience. I've got an '85 carrera with a magnaflow muffler and i put a 93 octane SW chip in it. I have not dyno tested it , but there was a noticeable improvement in bottom end torque . I could not feel a noticeable improvement in peak power.

I've noticed a defnite improvement at low speed torque and throttle control. The car also seems to be smoother at higher revs, and the redline's electronic limiter was raised a bit. Still haven't done the premuffler and exhaust, but I may get around to it.

Sorry to pimp my own thread, but I took a couple of pictures when I installed the chip back here.

Welcome to pelican,
I've been looking for an answer to the same question. I have a SW chip, I do think it makes a difference (some would argue thats a placebo effect). 101 projects book from this site has some good things in it for you to do to your car that aren't too expensive. I've heard over and over again that people don't know how good their car really is until they go the track, and to not mod it till you have. It does take good driving to master these cars but i haven't made it myself.

I'm now into weight reduction but thats a different story, best upgrade for your car plus free at first.

euro premuffler - dual out sport exhaust - Steve Wong chip

Bets bang for your bucks.

From there the cots go up astronomically - the benefits not so much.

Thank you for the input. A very nice thread indeed. I did see some mention of the ten pin? Not sure what that meant or if I would need to be concerned about it. Perhaps it is a topic for another thread.

The number 10 pin was an issue that was raised that applies to California cars only. The fat wire connector that runs to the DME under the drivers seat has a smaller wire with brown connectors running adjacent to it. These wires are disconnected in 49 state vehicles.

If you have a California car, this wire might be connected, in which case it should be disconnected on installing the chip. It is my undertanding that then the number ten pin issue is solved, by having no connection along this wire.

Regardless of what mods you plan to do I would definitely encourage you to join the local Porsche Car Club. Get involved and attend their events and you will meet stacks of helpful enthusiasts and see plenty of great Porsches from stock to wild hot-rods. I would also suggest doing some of their autocross or motorkhana events. They are great fun, cheap day out, do not reqiuire any special mods to your car, low risk of damaging and not hard particularly on your car. I thgink you will also be surprised how quickly your driving, speed and consistancy will improve. They are also good for highlighting areas where you cars handling can be improved.

One modification I would suggest is fitting a Momo Prototipo steering wheel (or similar).... they really do look and feel good.

^^This^^

An immediate improvement may cost you a total of $0. Especially if you live outside California and Japan (where they have strict emissions requirements), ensure the Pin 10 wires, which are next to the thick black DME cable beneath the driver's seat, are disconnected.

If you can find a good alignment shop, new shocks, lowering and corner balance will get you ready for track days, along with new brakes pads.

As for the SW chip and cat bypass, I have never heard anyone who wasn't happy with that mod.

These are the easy things that make a 911 more like itself. Stripping out weight is also a popular low cost option. Many start with the AC and rear seats.

Um, a good Porsche alignment shop, that is...

Having trouble loading pictures via Flikr. Anyone else?

[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/55190639@N04/5801853565/" title="porsche1 by kdog_us, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/5801853565_ac1b32a017.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="porsche1"></a>[/IMG]

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/55190639@N04/5802409768/" title="porsche2 by kdog_us, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2373/5802409768_b6eabd5543.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="porsche2"></a>

[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/55190639@N04/5802410352/" title="100_4668 by kdog_us, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3374/5802410352_7fe730bc14.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="100_4668"></a>[/IMG]

Nice looking 3.2.....love the color combo

I'm up for autopsy on this, as well,....Of course, I'm NO mechanic (I know the difference, however). I've certainly read about partial throttle response improvement with Wong's chip (and others) but would want to know "how" this is obtained (fuel amps or ignition maps,..other: BOTH).

For the patient instuctive types: what is changed within the maps when one simply removes the cat/converter and allows the engine to "breathe"....? And, to what degree?

I have to agree with Loren (thus far), as these "do" seem to contradict,..I mean, it IS what is,..what, in fact, is it?

Surely, there's an answer,..a clear one....

Of course, I'm the dumb-arse who never knew (rather, noticed) that my (89) baby was loaded with an Auto-Authority chip (for almost 1 1/2 years of ownership!) .....requiring nothing less than 92 octane gas (which, of course, I always run non-ethanol 93 octane from day one) .....I've not checked any of the parameters on this specific chip, thus far, but AM MOST interested to know more about it. Looking to put the Wong chip on board soon......I hope to get the part # to Steve so that he can read what's there (vs. how he does things)....I'm NEVER comfortable with changes (especially ignition advance) being unknown when the system DOES NOT have knock sensing and associated controls.

BEST!

Doyle

On the surface this seems like a contradiction but I don't think it really is.

If I read this correctly, Jerry Woods is saying -- in effect -- don't go looking for anything more than marginal overall (e.g., peak) HP gains by opening up the intake tract (MAF, K&N, ExtrudeHone, etc.) 'cause you won't find it. [Emphasis mine]

Quicksilver seems to be saying aftermarket chip = gains on otherwise stock motor w/ignition & fuel mapping. My interpretation is that re-mapped fuel & ignition can produce some marginal overall (e.g., peak) HP gains at the risk (very little / some / a lot of risk, depending on who's chip you buy) of detonation and other woes. Besides peak power, however, I'd believe the greater benefit of remapped ECU/DME on an otherwise stock motor would come in the form(s) of throttle response, mid-range power, etc.

I'm by no means an authority, but that's how I read it. Jerry Woods & Quicksilver, my apologies if I've misinterpreted/misrepresented your positions.

Dale

Also check that you're getting full throttle opening - real cheap (about $0) and quick (half hour if you take your time). It seems that many cars' linkage is out of adjustment and aren't getting full throttle. Lots of threads on this...