911 A/C factory upgrades
 

I am looking to buy a newer 911 (newer then my 1990 C2). I live in one of the hottest areas of Arizona so an A/C unit that cools the interior quickly is an important consideration. Can anyone provide some info on when and if Porsche installed more powerful A/C units? Thanks for any help.

If you can get to Patrick Motorsports they can help. I was referred there by another company ACKits also in Phoenix. You are lucky to live near either of these companies regarding AC issues.
There is a thread running describing improved condensers for some models of 911, this might also help but I would check with Patrick Motorsports first.

"...when..more powerful...A/C..."

With the advent of water cooled engines...

I read starting with the late 89 - 964 4wd had much better AC, it is an interesting subject, how the AC works, what is weak, what needs to be done to convert/etc. AC performance seems to be very mysterious, but it probably doesn't need to be. I made another diagram, may post somewhere here. I'm looking for the on-going AC "education" thread.

Thanks for the quick responses. I'll give Patrick Motorsports a call and see what they would propose. The original compressor has been checked and meets specs: the system holds pressure. I have a second (928) condensor with fan already installed. Had to sacrifice the rear seats to fit it in. I'm attaching a photo of the installation. I also "summerize" the car by putting in 1" foam rubber as an extra headliner. I'd be a little concerned about a different compressor. Additional drag on the engine from both engine heat and effect on all the computer settings (idle speed ect.) plus a higher pressure system that may require replacing lines and fittings. I'll see what they have to say but leaning more towards a newer model car where the factory has soved my problem. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1311954312.jpg

964 much better than my 88, 993 even better but don't think they really got it right till the 996 series which has great a/c.

You can upgrade the anemic factory system with additional condensers, better evaporators, more powerful fans, etc. Several aftermarket shops provide A/C upgrade parts specifically for the 911. Why limit yourself to what came from the Porsche factory?

Here's the simple answer.

It worked for us.

Rennaire

1-830-522-0300

Request for quote: R12 to R134a
Car: 89 3.2 Coupe
1 - Sanden 507 Compressor
2 - Bracket for Compressor
3 - full barrier hose kit, all seals/etc.
4 - new receiver dryer
5 - better rear condenser (micro channel?)
6 - better front condenser (micro channel?)
7 - over/under pressure switch
8 - correct expansion valve (assume evaporator is good enough)
9 - inline filter(s) to protect expansion valve and/or compressor
10 - mechanical install instructions, will take to shop or your shop for filling if within reasonable driving distance
11 - oil if doesn't come in the compressor
options:
12- new evaporator

Parts are to be bolt up compatible or easy modification, e.g. no front condenser hanging down, fits in the stock space.

What is wrong with this kit? Adds?
I don't want to add condensers e.g. under fenders/etc. I feel like better design condensers available now compared to 25 years ago or more should get the performance needed. Max. dry bulb 103F.

if you have a 964 c2 you have the best a/c for an aircooled car

if you=me then no I don't have a C2 I have a 3.2 Carrera, C2 not available until 90 or 91 I think, my AC isn't good originally was R12 and I want to switch

I think you mean a second "evaporator" in the rear

Or you can have an A/C specialist convert your car to r134 for less than $200.

Make it ~$500 and you will get a Hi/lo pressure switch, a new rcvr/dryer, AND 2 9" radiator cooling fans to force airflow over the rear condensor whenever the compressor cutch is engaged.

You can then discard the horribly inefficient front condensor blower mower, and maybe even the front condensor.

That is essentially this: Pelican Parts - Product Information: RA-SYS-TWO-DD-SAN

I bought and installed this kit from Rennaire about 5 years ago, (our host didn't carry it then) and installed it myself over a couple of weekends. Yes the front condensor is thicker, but i used a couple flat washers as spacers so it doesn't stick out below the crash bar. It has the serpentine evaporater with a 134A expansion valve, serpentine front condensor, procooler (that functions as an additional condensor) Sanden 507, adapter plate and the barrier hoses of the proper length with correct fittings, all o-rings and compressor oil. Back then it didn't come with a pressure switch but I asked for one and he threw it in at no extra cost. Not sure if it's included in the kit now, but if not they are readily available. The only stock piece of my system left is the decklid condensor. I also have not added any additional fans on the condensor. I'm very happy with results. When its 105+ here I can get upper 40's vent temps which, while not as good my Chevy truck, is still pretty comfortable. When I did the upgrade I considered the Griffiths kit, but this one was less expensive and seemed to be more of a drop in replacement.

Yes, that's quite a BARGAIN, RennAire Kit for $1500.00 plus HOURS to install vs.....

$36.00

(TWO) 9" RED SLIM CAR RADIATOR COOLING FANS+MOUNT KITS | eBay

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312128860.jpg

thanks for the fan idea, I'm still looking at this. Can anyone comment on if my current stock condensers can be checked/cleaned during the change to R134a? Who does this? or can I DIY? If the current condensors after cleaning are going to be an on-going source of issues, then I can consider replacing.

I've an '89 that's completely stock, as to it's AC and budget allows only small patches at this point....(happen to be working in the suspension area for now)...soon, she'll get these fresh AC pieces mentioned in this thread.

There certainly is a cleaning process (flush) that can be done to the condensors. I kinda' wished that I had done that as part of my recent work, but didn't. We only pulled vacuum/verified hold ,..then load the R-12. I still can't hit the vent temps that others hit on the stock units, completely relative to environment (i.e., on a 78 degree morning , that AC will provide me 43 degrees (quite cool)...but on the +100 degree days, she struggles to get 60 degrees at the vent,..sometimes giving me mid-50's. So, I'm sure others will chime, but my approach would be to excise "all" of that dreaded system if you're gonna' do it....(whole-hog). Newer condensor designs are a bit better at what they do (not to mention the age of what's "in-there" (reliability),..so....If it were me, I'd address the WHOLE shooting match.


So, the red fans (above) fit nicely on the rear (tail) condenser of an '89? If so, I'll order these pups tonight. Great price. I've always wanted to add this kit "type/style", albeit with marginal improvements in many cases-so I've heard. BUT: IMPROVEMENT, NONETHELESS!!!!!!!!!! Other interests would be how the plastic (?) handles heat over the long haul...

Will have to search for install pics...

Thanks!

Doyle

ALSO: some good reads at: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/617196-i-make-parallel-flow-micro-channel-condensers-911s-front-rear.html

BEST!

Doyle

I added the ebay fans to my 76. It helps but had to do some intake cover mods to get the pax side to fit. Does well to about 93 F. Thinking about tinting the targa window might help a little more.

Any pics of your "mods" for fitment? I'm looking for fans that drop in without any concerns for fitment (again, on a '89)

Thanks,

Doyle

85 Cab.

We need to talk. Please contact me at the "email" section of my profile.

We are in the middle of doing several 911's over here in Phoenix with the help of some very good tech people... very good people who used to work at another un-named shop here in the valley.

Pls shoot me an email when you can.

Thx,

Joe A

Also, as an aside, the 964 stock AC might be somewhat better than the stock Carrera or SC, but not by enough to make it worth "upgrading" to a 964. I think it makes far more sense to upgrade the existing system. I am starting a piecemeal rejuvenation of mine this week, replacing the evaporator with the Rennaire unit from our host.

There is no free lunch. Some upgrades of the stock system make perfect sense. Change out that boat anchor original compressor for a new rotary compressor. Have to change out all the old rubber lines. I never thought of putting in hard lines from front to rear but that would eliminate a lot of hose. There is about 40 feet of hose in a 911. In a normal car, maybe 6 feet of hose.

I changed out the compressor, hoses, new rear condenser because of broken line in original, new dryer and expansion valve. I stayed with R-12 which is expensive and hard to find (eBay and Craigslist}.

I'm getting about 35 degrees at the additional lower vent I installed on a 90 degree day and about 40 on a 100 degree day. Marginally OK. I did my own installation and trouble shooting with some verbal assistance from a friend who is an AC tech. The cost was about $1400-1600 including the charge of R-12. I don't think R-134 would work any better, probably worse.

Probably changing out the two condensers for more modern would have been a good idea in retrospect. I did add two fans, one a puller and one a pusher in the whale tail wired into a relay and triggered by the AC switch at the compressor.

By the way, it took several days of hard work to "restore" the system to its current "operational status". If you are thinking of having an AC shop do the work, you better plan on at least 12 hours of labor.