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Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 32
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Thinking about joining your ranks...
well I am thinking about joing the R-gruppe....
I have an SC and and thinking about buying/trading for a pre-73 tub...for the lightness, look, and the smog exemption.... But I would transplant as many components from the SC to the R-gruppe... I know the tranny and engine are moving over.... And I would like to keep my SC sport seats... what about the suspension pieces...I know the Al trailing arms are desirable...as well as the adjustable spring plates... what else is desirable to move over...guages...front suspensions...H4's...any interior pieces??? any advice from the R-gruppe... the SC will be a hot rod with carbs and an estimated 295hp+ and 930 brakes...so I think it fit the R-Gruppe mentality any other advice??? thanks Anonymous... |
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03-09-2002, 12:35 AM
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Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,334
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I love the early cars, and am a card-carrying R Gruppe member, but...
If you've got that much time and work in the SC already, you might want to simply backdate the bumpers. You could save yourself a lot of time and energy and have a glavanized shell, to boot.
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Jack Olsen 1972 911 My new video about my garage. • A video from German TV about my 911 |
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03-09-2002, 01:20 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 32
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well I was going to...but CIS keeps choking the motor...I would rather build the exact engine I want...and the car I want...instead of working around CIS...
Plus I do not have much money in the car itself...and the engine and brake project are ready to go...but again not done yet... Since my long term goal is a early car with a slick motor...and I am rebuilding the SC now anyways...I might as well think about doing the whole schebang and making a car that is EXACTLY how I want it.... Also any opinions on using a early chassis (SWB) 67-69?? Or does the short wheel base throw in some problems??? I am just in a planning stage for this huge leap...if it is prohibitive...I may just stick with a compromised SC....but I would rather have a 100% satisfactory early car... Thanks |
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03-09-2002, 02:46 AM
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I'm sure that there are some others here who know better then I (especially since I'm on the east coast), but I seem to remember reading that a lot of the pollution regulations apply to the engine, not the car. So if you have an '81 engine in a '71 car, the car will be required to meet the regulations for an '81. This may nix your idea about the loophole in the smog laws.
I'm going to go out on a limb and be a real "Long Hood" purest and say that I don't think the SWB cars are any better or worse then the LWB ('69 and later) cars. They are quite a bit more exacting and exciting to drive and I'm sure a hoot on the track. Other cars might be faster, but you'll be having more fun in a SWB car. If you're going to be doing primarily DE events, I think that a SWB would be great. The SWB and light weight will make it light years more responsive then the bulky SC that you're used to. If you are going to be racing and competing at 10/10's, then I think the LWB models are a little better since they will be a little easier to control at the limit. Don't get me wrong, a top notch driver in a SWB will spank most drivers in a LWB car. If you put Vic Elford in a SWB car, he'd beat just about anyone in a LWB car. But if you then put him in the LWB car, he'd most likely be just a little bit faster over a race or rally distance. I think that this is the conclusion that Porsche came to also in the late '60's. Another crack appears in the SCWDP facade!
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John '69 911E "It's a poor craftsman who blames their tools" -- Unknown "Any suspension -- no matter how poorly designed -- can be made to work reasonably well if you just stop it from moving." -- Colin Chapman |
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03-09-2002, 04:43 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 4,572
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"well I am thinking about joing the R-gruppe....
I have an SC and and thinking about buying/trading for a pre-73 tub..." If these aren't the blasphemous words of a troll, it's not even worth a comment. Other than... Before you bastardize, molest, and destroy your SC, why not just sell it to someone who will *appreciate* it for what it is (a fine car). Or is it already too late? 
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'81 SC Coupe "Blue Bomber" "Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel."- J.D.M. |
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03-09-2002, 06:40 AM
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Automotive Writer/DP
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Anonymous, I don't think you will run into any pollution requirements in most states since most DMVs go by the VIN number and not the engine number. In CA abnd WA the early 911s are now exempt due to their age. Also, with a 3.2L in the back the LWB cars are much less tricky to drive than the SWB cars. I would not personally want to drive a flared SWB with a 3.2l, or a LWB car with a 3.2l without flares - too unnerving.
As far as body shells, I would recommend a '72-73, since you will not have to modify the tub to fit your 915 in this model. Other things from your SC to move over: tach, fuel pump, all suspension including, spring plates, aluminum trailing arms and cross member, MC, brakes, rear tailight assmbly, headlights, interior as needed, dash, shift tower, pedal assembly, glass. You can basically use almost everything except the front hood and bumper bits. If you come to Cambria this year, you will gain some information by looking at all the cars there and that may influence your decision on what to keep and what to sell. Best of luck on your adventure, R Gruppe# 51
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1972 S - Early S Registry #187 1972 T/ST - R Gruppe #51 http://randywells.com http://randywells.com/blog |
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03-09-2002, 06:50 AM
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Registered
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 32
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HAHAHA...Doug
I am not a troll...and no my beautiful SC has not been molested at all...that is why I am going to sell it to someone who will love it and do something productive plus I will include SCWDP stickers along with the shell...keeping one to go on the motor of course... Don't worry though...putting the modified SC motor is all part of the plan...it will still be an SC at heart...and it will be a trojan horse as well....hahaha Randy...thanks for the list that is exactly what I was looking for... And since you say the 915 will plug into the 72-73 bodies that DEFINATELY narrow my search for me thanks... I plan to get a LWB with flares in the back... I want to paint it a nice DARK grey and get my interior done in the good old sports car red...7/9" x 16 fuchs...930 brakes...etc... and the engine should emulate Iris' but I will be bumping the displacement to about 3.5L and now that I can run carbs it should rip... since I am starting from the ground up I am also trying to figure out a RUF-like integrated roll cage so it will be covered by the upholstery and not too obvious... Oh...another ques. did the 72-73 shells come with motorized sunroofs and windows...I want a nice light car...but I want to have some amenities as well hmmm..now if I can just find a really cheap shell.... Last edited by Rgroupie; 03-09-2002 at 07:07 AM.. |
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03-09-2002, 07:02 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 4,572
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"...and it will be a trojan horse as well....hahaha..."
OK, r-gruppie.....that sounds perfect for the SCWDP. (We're a *very* subversive organization, doncha know?) 
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'81 SC Coupe "Blue Bomber" "Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel."- J.D.M. |
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03-09-2002, 07:34 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 32
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oh any leads as to where to search for a project shell would be appreciated...
I am looking here rennlist panorama excellece collector car trader online recycled thanks MJ |
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03-09-2002, 08:06 AM
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03-09-2002, 08:32 AM
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Hilbilly Deluxe
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Quote:
Consider selling your car as is, and finding a rougher example of an SC to use as a doner car, or even a wreck. You plan on rebuilding the engine anyway, and you will probably get the same money selling a non-rolling body shell, if it came from a cherry $15K SC or a tired $9K SC. Tom |
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03-09-2002, 08:54 AM
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Hey 82SC, why the secret identity???
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Bill Krause We don't wonder where we're going or remember where we've been. |
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03-09-2002, 09:05 AM
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Team California
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Yeah, It is him isn't it? Good call, Bill.
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Denis Trump uses an autopen and votes by mail, in case anyone wonders. 
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03-09-2002, 09:11 AM
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,189
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"for the lightness, look, and the smog exemption.... "
All good qualities to strive for. -- but. . .
1) smog exemption-- First, the SC's are just now starting to fall into the smog-exempt status. Second, I think we can learn a lot from Jacks project. This too was one of his motivations. His car however is becoming a (non-roadable) track car fast. So Really reconsider what you want from the car. If you building a track car, admit it, and forgetabout the smog nazi's. 2)Look-- Those R-Gruppe cars *are* really nice looking. even as nice looking as some SC's. Personally, I think the nice SC sportseats would look odd in an R-Gruppe car. A strange mixing of eras. 3)Lightness-- Lack of Rust aside, the SC body shells do weigh more. The zinc used for the galvanizing adds, something like 17 lbs. Further more, it is much more difficult buy carbon fiber to replace perfectly good body panels. So I suppose the R-Gruppe guys have us there for Track shells. Otherwise, a lot can be done to lighten an SC. . .it was not the bumpers that added big weight to the base SC. Also, I can't help but wonder now many R-Gruppe cars have aluminum rear trailing arms "liberated"out of SC's. My thinking; learn alot from the R-Gruppe guys and apply it to our SC's. Take a look at Bill Verberg's 3.0, for instance. My opinion; the man clearly understands optimizing in the shadow of balance. Others see it in the the RUF yellowbird. The big question for you is; what's Your balance? Now! out of the closet you! 
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03-09-2002, 09:16 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Deep in the bowels of UCLA hospital
Posts: 2,316
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HAHAHAHA
you guys crack me up... yes guilty as found...being such an avid SC fan...and a co-designer of our logo...I had to use an alias... but I guess the "..." I love to use gave me away... Well to put it all on the table: 1. I prefer the early p-car look...just jack' platypus comparisson makes me cringe 2. The big motivation in buying the SC is the bullet proof engine 3. I love my SC 4. I love hp and torque 5. I hate smog law that don't let me get the most out of my engine 6. My SC is beautiful to me...but it is a 20 year old car...the engine needs rebuilding...1qt ever 400 miles...and I think it may be worth less then the sum of the parts. 7. I am testing the waters here...don't know for sure how to go about this 8. I want a track/street car...probably a 30/70 split 9. SC are great workhorses...early p-cars are classics...I have always wanted and plan to have an early p-car in my garage one day...with this engine rebuild I think this may be a good time to do it... 10. For and SC with 190K mile and needing a rebuild, I doubt I can get 10K for it...so selling and finding an early shell and then a good tranny and then a good engine block seems difficult...then I would need to find all the right suspension pieces...interior pieces...etc... 11. My car will be elidgable for smog exemption in 5 year...if I can get the historical vehicle plate...but I don't think my engine will last for 5 more years with worn piston rings, valve guides, and the leaks... 12. I like my sport seats and they are going with me where every I go...haha... SC's will always have a special place in my heart...and I plan to use an SC block no matter which direction I choose to take so... HAHAHA...you guys really crack me up... MJ |
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03-09-2002, 09:38 AM
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Registered
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Those R-Gruppe cars *are* really nice looking. even as nice looking as some SC's.
OK, now you've crossed the line! .... -- Curt |
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03-09-2002, 09:58 AM
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,189
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Quote:
 And Curt; I don't know *what* your talking about.  EDIT Obligitory -- Muhhahahah!
Last edited by island911; 03-09-2002 at 11:56 AM.. |
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03-09-2002, 10:04 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 4,572
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LOL!....Quack, quack, quack!!!
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'81 SC Coupe "Blue Bomber" "Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel."- J.D.M. |
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03-09-2002, 01:57 PM
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Registered
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MJ;
You said: " 9. SC are great workhorses...early p-cars are classics ...I have always wanted and plan to have an early p-car in my garage one day...with this engine rebuild I think this may be a good time to do it... " Here Here -  Congratulations on coming out and resisting the urge to conform to the pressure from the masses (both SCWDP and vehicle-wise). You deserve an article in People Magazine for finally "coming out" and sharing your secret passion with the world! I think that I'm going to cry... 
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John '69 911E "It's a poor craftsman who blames their tools" -- Unknown "Any suspension -- no matter how poorly designed -- can be made to work reasonably well if you just stop it from moving." -- Colin Chapman |
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03-12-2002, 09:50 AM
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Registered
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The Mona Lisa is a classic too, but I wouldn't want to drive it.
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Bill Krause We don't wonder where we're going or remember where we've been. |
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03-12-2002, 09:57 AM
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1969 Porsche 911E 2.0 E
'72 911S
1971 Porsche Targa 2.5L
1982 Porsche 911SC Coupe 3.2
1979 Porsche 911SC 3.0L 
